[yvonne johnson]

Many of the impressions I've got at both Bouley and Danube is that Bouley doesn't seem to think training and selecting FOH people is a priority. Strange really.

[mongo_jones]

And yet I wonder how many diners who pass through their portals would be able to tell you what the name means...

what does it mean?

[yvonne johnson]

And yet I wonder how many diners who pass through their portals would be able to tell you what the name means...

what does it mean?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Secession

[mongo_jones]

eating truly is a multi-sensory experience.

[Sneakeater]

Now that I've read Oakapple's review of Secession, I'm better able to synthesize my own thoughts about the place (as if anyone cares).

First, the place, at least currently, is a mess. I mean the way it's run. Service hiccups, lighting adjustments, etc. They give little or no evidence of knowing what they're doing.

Second, the food. As I indicated in my review, your viewpoint might change if you look at as a big relatively inexpensive brasserie rather than a member of the Bouley empire. I was easier on the food than Oakapple was, because I view this place as a sort of well-priced convenient food barn, whereas he seemed to expect a Serious Restaurant. His more rigorous viewpoint is probably more in sync with the way most people here see things. But to me, on a comparative value level, a place like Secession has its place.

Like, for example, the roast kid. Oakapple's criticism of the potatoes that came with his lamb apply equally well to the potatoes that came with the kid. But the meat was far better than adequate, and given this place's fairly modest price point, that seems fine to me. (I understand that the kid was not available when Oakapple was there, and I obviously recognize that the unavailability of menu items is probably going to be a big problem here. But it seems to me that Oakapple's opinion of his lamb was equivalent to my opinion of my kid.)

I mean, God knows I'm not saying the two places are directly comparable, but you don't criticize Hill Country for its general crudeness or its not-infrequent missfires. Do you? (Not that anything I had at Secession approached the best things I've had at Hill Country, of course.)

(I hope I don't have to emphasize that I don't mean to be "arguing" with Oakapple. Just trying to clarify my own thinking -- even if doing so by thinking aloud.)

[yvonne johnson]

(I hope I don't have to emphasize that I don't mean to be "arguing" with Oakapple. Just trying to clarify my own thinking -- even if doing so by thinking aloud.)

Argue, for goodness sake.

[Sneakeater]

[deleted as off-point]

[oakapple]

As I indicated in my review, your viewpoint might change if you look at as a big relatively inexpensive brasserie rather than a member of the Bouley empire. I was easier on the food than Oakapple was, because I view this place as a sort of well-priced convenient food barn, whereas he seemed to expect a Serious Restaurant. His more rigorous viewpoint is probably more in sync with the way most people here see things. But to me, on a comparative value level, a place like Secession has its place.

I've no objection to the idea of turning Danube into a "convenient food barn." The menu they've chosen and the price point both suggest precisely that. But in that case, they need to ace much more of the food. The lamb was good at the price, and I would have excused the gloppy potatoes underneath it. But when the french fries are limp & soggy and the mac 'n' cheese is watery and the bread is stale and the terrine is too cold and they forget the steak sauce, then it's no longer such a good deal.

I didn't expect a Serious Restaurant, because I had already seen the menu and understood the implications. But I think a lot of people will expect that, because it's David Bouley, and because that room still looks like a three-star environment. During our meal there, I'd say at least half of the men were wearing sport jackets, which sort of suggests the kind of restaurant they thought they were going to.

The distinction really struck us the following evening, when we had dinner at Bloomingdale Road on the Upper West Side. Now, there's no doubt at all that this place is meant to be a casual food barn, and it has only been open about a month. But they aced everything, both food and service. And it's a much larger space, meaning there's a much higher risk that your order will seem mass-produced. So if Bouley wants Secession to be a great casual place, I'm all for it. But then he really needs to nail it.

[Wilfrid1]

I am really wondering whether to cancel my Secession reservation and wait a month to see if reports get better...

[Sneakeater]

See, the thing is, looking at Oakapple's review of Bloomingdale Road, I don't see it as being comparable to Secession, at least in some important ways. The food at Bloomingdale Road looks more "interesting." The food at Secession is more basic. I think my point is, you don't see "basic" food done with any credibility at all -- and in a way that isn't just boring -- as often as you think you would.

It's why some of us go crazy anytime a bistro or brasserie that has any claim to being decent, let alone excellent, opens up.

[Sneakeater]

Let me try to put this another way.

In the same general neighborhood as Secession is The Harrison. The Harrison is probably a better restaurant. But The Harrison isn't interchangable with Secession: The Harrison is a place to go when you want food that's a just a tiny bit more "creative" than what Secession offers. Secession, to me, fills more of the same need as Blaue Gans.

Or to use an even better comparison, right around the block from Secession is its sister restaurant, Bouley Upstairs. Bouley Upstairs is also a very fairly priced restaurant. But I don't see it as filling the same need as Secession, because, again, the food is more complicated and "creative". Bouley Upstairs is certainly "better" than Secession. But when I'm in the mood for simpler, more "basic" food, Secession would be my choice -- for all its faults.

[oakapple]

See, the thing is, looking at Oakapple's review of Bloomingdale Road, I don't see it as being comparable to Secession, at least in some important ways.

I was comparing them in one, and only one, sense: They're both obviously aiming for a casual price point—the bills for the two meals were within $10 of each other—but one appears to be nailing it, and the other isn't. I agree that the food they serve is not very smilar.

Oh, and also the fact that they're both brand new, but one place has the service and kitchen under control, and the other doesn't.

[R Washburn]

As of last night they were serving a $45 3-course prix fixe menu. Maybe they will be sticking with this until they get the kitchen under control. The food was inconsistent ranging from acceptable to terrible, for the most part. The exceptions being the "Tuscan Fries" and tuna sashimi which were quite good.

I had the "full head of Boston Bibb" which was okay, the spaghetti carbonara (way too salty) and the vacherin (huge portion, some of the sorbets were pretty good) each table received a basket of tuscan fries. My wife had the Tuna sashimi (which was good), the #1 chicken (terrible, way underseasoned) and the German chocolate cake (okay).

Usual service problems, such as big gaps between courses and little things like all the pepper mills in the restaurant being empty. I don't think they will turn things around here for a long time, if ever, given all the other restauarnts Bouley is opening. Oh, and I did see Bouley , so I can't blame the problems on him not being there.

This place is no where near as good as Benoit, DB, Bar Boulud or Upstairs, and I am not sure it ever will be. I do like the room, however, and the crowd was very well dressed. Unfortunately the food was really unacceptable, even at this modest price point. Maybe when they get the full menu going it will be possible to put together an acceptable meal if you order carefully.

[oakapple]

As of last night they were serving a $45 3-course prix fixe menu. Maybe they will be sticking with this until they get the kitchen under control. The food was inconsistent ranging from acceptable to terrible, for the most part. The exceptions being the "Tuscan Fries" and tuna sashimi which were quite good.

Is that in lieu of the original menu, or in addition to it?

[Rich]

Does anyone else think this place should be located in Charleston, SC?

Though it probably couldn't compete with McCrady's.