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Orik
QUOTE(Aaron T @ May 31 2008, 11:07 PM) *
Interesting article on a philosophical dispute between Ferran Adrià of el Bulli and Santi Santamaría of Can Fabes in the Times here.


Yes, but:

http://sabores.com/recetas/santi-santamari...-quimicos-46353
splinky
QUOTE(Orik @ Jun 1 2008, 12:42 PM) *
QUOTE(Aaron T @ May 31 2008, 11:07 PM) *
Interesting article on a philosophical dispute between Ferran Adrià of el Bulli and Santi Santamaría of Can Fabes in the Times here.


Yes, but:

http://sabores.com/recetas/santi-santamari...-quimicos-46353

that's funny but not a huge surprise
Orik
QUOTE(splinky @ Jun 1 2008, 12:57 PM) *
QUOTE(Orik @ Jun 1 2008, 12:42 PM) *
QUOTE(Aaron T @ May 31 2008, 11:07 PM) *
Interesting article on a philosophical dispute between Ferran Adrià of el Bulli and Santi Santamaría of Can Fabes in the Times here.


Yes, but:

http://sabores.com/recetas/santi-santamari...-quimicos-46353

that's funny but not a huge surprise


I'm not sure about the substance of his claims wrt health, but there's an interesting point - many diners who insist on "local", organic, seasonal, etc. suspend all of these requirements when MG is involved, and seem happy to consume dishes that are more similar to industrially produced snack bars or even fish food than to traditional restaurant dishes.
Wilfrid1
I suspect there is indeed a story to be written about molecular gastronomy and health: but the time is not yet ripe. ninja.gif
Orik
Well, thanks to these statements Sivan and I are now bound to be major stars on some German TV station that was at Can Fabes today. I managed not to mention the war. The food had all kinds of strange additives like NaCl and C12H22O11
Wilfrid1
Were you wearing your MouthfulsFOOD.com t-shirts?
Behemoth
QUOTE(Orik @ Jun 4 2008, 10:34 AM) *
Well, thanks to these statements Sivan and I are now bound to be major stars on some German TV station that was at Can Fabes today. I managed not to mention the war. The food had all kinds of strange additives like NaCl and C12H22O11


The fact that german TV has any idea this debate exists is an encouragin start. Any idea which one? I can try and tape it for you.
Orik
QUOTE(Behemoth @ Jun 4 2008, 03:43 PM) *
QUOTE(Orik @ Jun 4 2008, 10:34 AM) *
Well, thanks to these statements Sivan and I are now bound to be major stars on some German TV station that was at Can Fabes today. I managed not to mention the war. The food had all kinds of strange additives like NaCl and C12H22O11


The fact that german TV has any idea this debate exists is an encouragin start. Any idea which one? I can try and tape it for you.


The cameraman looked like he usually shoots those really soft core erotic flicks for RTL, but I didn't really ask. (and RTL isn't really German, is it? and I don't even know if they've been running those for the past 15 years or so)

At another table, some British diners responded with "no faces please, we are international spies and terrorists". I think they were taken seriously.
Behemoth
QUOTE(Orik @ Jun 4 2008, 02:13 PM) *
The cameraman looked like he usually shoots those really soft core erotic flicks for RTL, but I didn't really ask. (and RTL isn't really German, is it? and I don't even know if they've been running those for the past 15 years or so)

At another table, some British diners responded with "no faces please, we are international spies and terrorists". I think they were taken seriously.


I think RTL is Italian. I also think Germans consider soft-core porn on TV after 10pm a basic human right. laugh.gif
SRD
QUOTE(Behemoth @ Jun 8 2008, 11:35 AM) *
QUOTE(Orik @ Jun 4 2008, 02:13 PM) *
The cameraman looked like he usually shoots those really soft core erotic flicks for RTL, but I didn't really ask. (and RTL isn't really German, is it? and I don't even know if they've been running those for the past 15 years or so)

At another table, some British diners responded with "no faces please, we are international spies and terrorists". I think they were taken seriously.


I think RTL is Italian. I also think Germans consider soft-core porn on TV after 10pm a basic human right. laugh.gif
Not at all, they think it's compulsory, especially if it contains Max Mosley. rolleyes.gif
Behemoth
QUOTE(SRD @ Jun 8 2008, 05:17 AM) *
Not at all, they think it's compulsory, especially if it contains Max Mosley. rolleyes.gif


The Nazi fetishes seem to be limited to the British upper classes.
LML
QUOTE(Behemoth @ Jun 8 2008, 01:31 PM) *
QUOTE(SRD @ Jun 8 2008, 05:17 AM) *
Not at all, they think it's compulsory, especially if it contains Max Mosley. rolleyes.gif


The Nazi fetishes seem to be limited to the British upper classes.


The Nazi fetish is far too mild for a nation that considers multiple fisting and urolagnia as appropriate first date activities.
SRD
QUOTE(LML @ Jun 8 2008, 01:41 PM) *
QUOTE(Behemoth @ Jun 8 2008, 01:31 PM) *
QUOTE(SRD @ Jun 8 2008, 05:17 AM) *
Not at all, they think it's compulsory, especially if it contains Max Mosley. rolleyes.gif


The Nazi fetishes seem to be limited to the British upper classes.


The Nazi fetish is far too mild for a nation that considers multiple fisting and urolagnia as appropriate first date activities.
Is urolagnia a suitable topic for a forum called Mouthfuls? incidentally, according to wiki: 'In New Zealand, publishing (e.g. making available on one's web page) anything containing urophilia is a felony punishable by up to ten (10) years in jail.'
Behemoth
QUOTE(LML @ Jun 8 2008, 06:41 AM) *
QUOTE(Behemoth @ Jun 8 2008, 01:31 PM) *
QUOTE(SRD @ Jun 8 2008, 05:17 AM) *
Not at all, they think it's compulsory, especially if it contains Max Mosley. rolleyes.gif


The Nazi fetishes seem to be limited to the British upper classes.


The Nazi fetish is far too mild for a nation that considers multiple fisting and urolagnia as appropriate first date activities.


Nah, it's like belly-dancing in the middle east. Purely for tourists.
LML
QUOTE(Behemoth @ Jun 8 2008, 04:07 PM) *
QUOTE(LML @ Jun 8 2008, 06:41 AM) *
QUOTE(Behemoth @ Jun 8 2008, 01:31 PM) *
QUOTE(SRD @ Jun 8 2008, 05:17 AM) *
Not at all, they think it's compulsory, especially if it contains Max Mosley. rolleyes.gif


The Nazi fetishes seem to be limited to the British upper classes.


The Nazi fetish is far too mild for a nation that considers multiple fisting and urolagnia as appropriate first date activities.


Nah, it's like belly-dancing in the middle east. Purely for tourists.


No it's not. In fact, most sex tourists are German.
Behemoth
QUOTE(LML @ Jun 8 2008, 09:58 AM) *
No it's not. In fact, most sex tourists are German.

I'll have to bow to your obvious expertise in this matter...
lovelynugget
QUOTE(LML @ Jun 8 2008, 08:41 AM) *
QUOTE(Behemoth @ Jun 8 2008, 01:31 PM) *
QUOTE(SRD @ Jun 8 2008, 05:17 AM) *
Not at all, they think it's compulsory, especially if it contains Max Mosley. rolleyes.gif


The Nazi fetishes seem to be limited to the British upper classes.


The Nazi fetish is far too mild for a nation that considers multiple fisting and urolagnia as appropriate first date activities.

My goodness!

I am riven with curiosity. Are we ever going to meet you?
Carolyn Tillie
Surprised that no one has yet commented on the BBC Article today:

QUOTE
One of the world's leading restaurant started life as a mini-golf course.

Set in a stunning natural park near the Catalan town of Roses, it was opened in 1961 by a German homeopathic doctor.

Three years later, the pitch-and-putt business was abandoned in favour of gastronomy, although the name, El Bulli, survived. It refers to a breed of French bulldog favoured by the doctor's wife.

Today, El Bulli is a culinary phenomenon. With three Michelin stars, its constantly-evolving tasting menu has featured a stream of unlikely innovations: rose petals in tempura, monkfish liver fondue, grilled sole skin, ying-yang of chickpea water, and Rice Krispies paella - to name but a few.

Each creation is meticulously catalogued, and a documentary film is in production.

Open mouth, open mind

For three years running, El Bulli has been voted the world's best place to dine by Restaurant magazine.

It's crazy to suggest that these additives are the biggest health issue of our times


"El Bulli is a language which sometimes you can't understand, but all I ask is that people come with an open mind," explains Ferran Adria, who first arrived on work experience in 1983, and is today the restaurant's co-owner and chef de cuisine.

"For example, we do one dish which is a gently liquefied tea soup, with tiny jasmine and eucalyptus flowers floating on it, like water lilies.

"When you taste that, I don't know how to explain exactly what it is. And I made it! There are no reference points."

If Mr Adria sounds a trifle defensive, it is with good reason. For although many consider him the world's greatest chef, his handiwork has been publicly characterised as "pretentious" and "a public health issue" by a leading Spanish rival.

The accuser is Santi Santamaria, a culinary traditionalist who, in 1994, became the first Catalan to secure a coveted third Michelin star, for his restaurant Can Fabes.

In a new book, The Kitchen Laid Bare, Mr Santamaria takes aim at Adria and his disciples, for their use of synthetic additives - gels, preservatives and thickening agents - allegedly, at the expense of locally-produced, organic ingredients.

Techno-emotional cuisine


"I believe the interference of industry in haute cuisine has reached new levels, in part because of your work," writes Mr Santamaria in an open letter to Mr Adria.

Image of dish served at El Bulli
Each elaborate El Bulli dish is carefully catalogued for posterity

The book rails against what he calls the "Mcdonaldisation" of Michelin stars, and asserts that "a chef who uses chemical or synthetic products, made in a laboratory, is like an athlete who dopes".

The book was just the first glint of steel. At a subsequent literary awards ceremony, Mr Santamaria openly wielded the knife, announcing a "conceptual and ethical divorce" from Mr Adria.

"Chefs should not legitimise forms of eating which are inconsistent with healthy dietary habits," he announced, adding that some rivals were turning cookery into a "media spectacle".

By any standard, it was a breathtakingly bold attack on a man who has led the march of Spanish chefs to the global summit of their profession.

"All of the new chefs want to be Ferran Adria - he's become a kind of god," explains Ricard Martin, the food critic for Time Out Barcelona.

"Two years ago I was at the Pompidou Centre in Paris, and they had a huge wall displaying the creative processes of El Bulli. It was faintly ridiculous, but there's no doubt he's a big international star."

Initially labelled "molecular gastronomy" then "techno-emotional cuisine," Mr Adria's work is often defined in laboratory terms - perhaps because, during the winter months, his team of forty chefs retreat to a custom-built workshop to experiment with the following season's menu.

But during our interview, it soon becomes clear that Mr Adria resents the caricature of himself as a kind of Dr Frankenstein in a chef's hat.

"In the past, there was no real dialogue between cookery and other disciplines - like art, design, science and ecology," he explains. "So what I've done is initiate that dialogue. But no one should ever dispute that I'm a chef."

Trademark foams

Wearing jeans and trainers under his chef's whites, Mr Adria is pleasantly informal, but his dark eyes carry just a hint of menace. With greying hair and a strongly expressive face, he calls to mind Robert de Niro doing comedy.

So what does he make of Mr Santamaria's attack?

"It's the biggest madness in the history of cuisine," Mr Adria retorts, "lies, lies, lies! Obviously, if you consume too much of anything it's bad for you - too much roast beef, sugar or salt is bad. But 80% of the products I use are ecological, and the additives under debate account for just 0.1% of my cooking."

Mr Adria cites emails of support from some of the world's leading chefs, and points out that even the Spanish government has come out in his defence.

In a radio interview, Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero said: "Ferran Adria is recognised as the best chef in the world, and I think the products we consume in our top-end cuisine are absolutely healthy and cause no problems."

Two chefs at El Bulli
The science of gastronomy is a complex business

The nutritionists agree, pointing out that the additives used to create El Bulli's trademark foams and airs have been approved through the European Union's system of E-numbers, while the quantities used are strictly regulated.

"We're talking here about gelling agents, which change the texture of food," explains Magda Rafecas, a chemistry professor at the University of Barcelona.

"For example, a ball of ice cream wouldn't retain its shape without these additives, and they give creme caramel its wobbly texture. There's no health issue - you would have to consume an enormous amount to have an adverse reaction."

Different or dangerous?

Having ignited in May, the row continues to simmer, with Santi Santamaria arguing that restaurants should be compelled to include on their menus a detailed list of additives used, along similar lines to the labelling of industrial food products.

"To portray this as a debate about traditional versus modern cooking is a false contrast," Mr Santamaria insists.

"It's really a debate about home-made versus industrial products, natural versus artificial. The public have the right to be informed about what they're eating."

Back at El Bulli, Ferran Adria is dismissive of such calls. "When Santamaria talks about industrial products," he argues, "bear in mind that sugar is an industrial product, as is the best wine in the world. We've always used industrial products."

And as work begins on tonight's 35-course tasting men, Mr Adria offers a parting shot to his rival.

"It's crazy to suggest that these additives are the biggest health issue of our times," he says. "There are thousands of problems in day-to-day nutrition, which are much more important that the fact that a handful of chefs are doing something that's a bit different."
omnivorette
"Having ignited in May..."

It's not new news. It was all over some food boards a couple of months ago...
Wilfrid1
Magnificently loopy piece by art critic Jerry Saltz on ravished by the chef. More or less.
jesteinf
I've got a reservation at El Bulli in a few weeks, and the Wife and I decided to build a 10 day trip to Spain around the dinner. We're spending a couple of days in Madrid first, and then taking the AVE to Barcelona. Our plan is to stay in Barcelona for a few days, head down to Roses for a couple of days, and then come back to Barcelona for a few more days before heading home.

The question is, what's the best way to get to Roses from Barcelona without driving? It looks like there is a bus, but you can't buy tickets in advance and obviously I don't want to risk getting stuck without a way to Roses.

Thoughts?
rohandaft
QUOTE(jesteinf @ May 27 2009, 03:54 PM) *
I've got a reservation at El Bulli in a few weeks, and the Wife and I decided to build a 10 day trip to Spain around the dinner. We're spending a couple of days in Madrid first, and then taking the AVE to Barcelona. Our plan is to stay in Barcelona for a few days, head down to Roses for a couple of days, and then come back to Barcelona for a few more days before heading home.

The question is, what's the best way to get to Roses from Barcelona without driving? It looks like there is a bus, but you can't buy tickets in advance and obviously I don't want to risk getting stuck without a way to Roses.

Thoughts?


I'd take the train to Figueres and then cab or bus from there
Gavin
Agree on the train suggestion. Brought back some memories of driving around in circles in Rosas (Tuckerman RIP was pilot) trying to find our (crap but cheap) hotel. Might want to consider John Tseng's rather cool suggestion up at the top of this thread of travelling to the restaurant by boat. Must be better than the scary switchback ride in the taxi over the mountain.
AaronS
I took the bus from Barcelona in 2007 without any problems, we just showed up at the bus station about an hour before it was scheduled to leave.

I would also re-think spending a few days in Roses, there is an old fort you can tour which is nice but we didn't find that much to do. I would go back to Barcelona or go somewhere else on the coast in the morning.
Anthony Bonner
QUOTE(AaronS @ May 29 2009, 10:13 AM) *
I took the bus from Barcelona in 2007 without any problems, we just showed up at the bus station about an hour before it was scheduled to leave.

I would also re-think spending a few days in Roses, there is an old fort you can tour which is nice but we didn't find that much to do. I would go back to Barcelona or go somewhere else on the coast in the morning.

In '04 I spent a week a little bit futher up the cost in Cadaques and it was absolutely lovely.
jesteinf
QUOTE(AaronS @ May 29 2009, 09:13 AM) *
I took the bus from Barcelona in 2007 without any problems, we just showed up at the bus station about an hour before it was scheduled to leave.

I would also re-think spending a few days in Roses, there is an old fort you can tour which is nice but we didn't find that much to do. I would go back to Barcelona or go somewhere else on the coast in the morning.


Dinner is on the 24th, so we're planning on arriving in Roses on the 23rd and then leaving on the 25th.
Peter Creasey

El Bulli -- see what magic they create for a 32 course five hour meal. You will see each course with comments and even some short videos...

Dinner at El Bulli
Liza
Ferran Adria taking a sabbatical
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/wor...el-bulli-closed
Rail Paul
QUOTE(Liza @ Jan 26 2010, 03:18 PM) *


Thanks for posting this.

The WSJ adds some additional information to this decision. Adria and several other chefs will be teaching and running workshops at Harvard. He's looking for high level partners in his creative process (PepsiCo is mentioned). He doesn't want to be on the "guide circuit" of restaurants.

He doesn't want yachts or Ferraris or to open 40 restaurants around the world.

QUOTE
I made this decision because I want a better balance in my life. I've been very clear that we want to continue to maximize our creativity and share our discoveries with the culinary world in the coming years. We're going to invest a lot in R&D and this R&D will be focused on sustaining and growing our brand however possible. A brand with goals like ours requires a big capital investment, and even though the point isn't to make money, we still need to figure out how we're going to pay for all of this.

WSJ: What type of funding are you looking for?

Mr. Adria: We're looking at a variety of revenue streams going forward. We plan to operate like a foundation, but it will be a highly creative, highly expensive format to support. Right now El Bulli costs me €300,000 a year to sustain. But it's never really been a business in the traditional sense; it's been funded by other resources. I've never done this because of money, otherwise I'd have 40 restaurants opened all over the world. I do this because I love it. We'll get the resources we need one way or another to make this dream viable.

FC Barcelona and Real Madrid have sponsors on their jerseys. Why can't El Bulli? It could be called El Bulli "X" or whatever. It's possible we'll attach El Bulli to another brand.

WSJ: Can you still continue to have the same impact on the culinary world that you've had thus far with El Bulli closed?

Mr. Adria: We don't set out to impress and we don't set out solely for impact. Our goal is to advance the cuisine and share what we do with younger chefs so that the food they make is better than the food we make today. In order to do that, you don't need to have people eat your food. You can do it through conferences, books, other means. Think about the guy who won the Lucky Strike [Designer] Award, [graphic artist] Stefan Sagmeister. Every six years he closes his company to rework his concept. To see what he was doing was really important to see that it's possible to achieve our goals.

WSJ: How will this decision affect your research going forward?

Mr. Adria: Right now we only have five people working on creativity, and to continue to grow, we'll need to add to our team.

Consider what PepsiCo spends on R&D. It wouldn't be illogical for PepsiCo to take an American or a Spanish chef and invest in them to develop a project together. Creativity has to be financed.

WSJ: Will you have any trouble being removed from the critical limelight?

Mr. Adria: I don't need the recognition going forward. When El Bulli or whatever we call it reopens, it's not going to be in the guide circuits. With all the respect to the guides, I don't think it's in the future for us. It won't be logical enough for a restaurant guide to actually judge. It may be open on different days, different hours. We're talking about developing an entirely new restaurant format. So clearly our relationship with the press will change. I'll be judged on creativity, on whether I help people better understand food -- but not on how good the food is.

WSJ: You talked a lot about your family during the press conference on Tuesday. Did they play a role did in your decision?

Mr. Adria: They've had a bit of an influence. They want me to be happy, so they wanted to see this change. I've worked 15 hours a day for 25 years straight. I want the freedom to be able to pick up and go visit my friend [chef] Jose Andres in Washington whenever I want. But I also realize I can't live without activity, I can't be sedentary. My family is humble. They live simply. We don't have Ferraris or yachts. It's not about extravagance. So we'll be fine.

WSJ: You said you also plan to teach courses on the science of cooking at Harvard this fall. What type of material does Professor Ferran plan to cover?

Mr. Adria: It's a dream that Harvard is doing this for gastronomy. We [Mr. Adria, Mr. Andres and other chefs] plan to cover everything that has gotten us to where are today in the kitchen -- the relationship between physics and cooking. We plan to put a lot of love into this relationship and I think Harvard will be happy with what we bring to the campus.

WSJ: You still have two years of service in front of you before you close El Bulli's doors. What do you hope to accomplish in that time?

Mr. Adria: People want to talk about 2014 but what about 2010 and 2011? That's why I announced this so early. On the first of February, we begin to work on the new menu with tons of passion and excitement. I believe 2010 will be an amazing year, just like 2009 was.

WSJ: Think it will be even harder to nail down a reservation in 2011?

Mr. Adria: The reservation system has always bothered me, and that's something that we have to deal with. If we could fit everyone in, we would. If there's a more democratic way to do it, I'd love to. After 2011, the most important thing is to know how to do this better in 2014. If you have any ideas, I'd love one.



WSJ
Sneakeater
This is horrible. My chances of getting into El Bulli have decreased by 0.0000005%.
Carolyn Tillie
Announced today - El Bulli to close permanently.
nuxvomica
QUOTE(Carolyn Tillie @ Feb 13 2010, 12:04 AM) *

sigh
malarkey
well, really, if you didn't get in those first few years, you know you were missing the peak.

Hell, I wanted to go back in '98-'99. Chefs at this level of the game may or may not keep their restos open, depending on their mood. LOL

Interesting though, that they've been losing money. I guess being at the tippy top doesn't guarantee an income.
Sneakeater
I don't find it the least bit surprising that the very best restaurants are low-margin.
Rail Paul
QUOTE(nuxvomica @ Feb 12 2010, 09:41 PM) *
QUOTE(Carolyn Tillie @ Feb 13 2010, 12:04 AM) *

sigh


or, maybe not.

Eater reports that the foundation / institute may serve meals...

decisions, decisions
Wilfrid
QUOTE
"We're changing the economic model, and we're changing the reservation system... But we're still going to be feeding people."


How extraordinarily generous of him.
nuxvomica
QUOTE(Wilfrid @ Feb 19 2010, 10:46 PM) *
QUOTE
"We're changing the economic model, and we're changing the reservation system... But we're still going to be feeding people."


How extraordinarily generous of him.

laugh.gif
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