cabrales
Sep 25 2005, 01:22 PM
The electric milk, I ate all of, because I wanted to sample it in its entire experience. A member of my dining party had already sampled it and heavily cautioned me against it, since they know my sensitivity to this kind of thing. What's especially bad about it is that it hits not only one's tongue, but the stinging, harsh, terrible sensation hits more directly the top of one's mouth as well. It is "electric" in the sense that it jolts, disturbs, numbs partially one's mouth.
That was the first time my dining companion suggested they might leave. (As context, our prior two meals, including lunch the day of EB, were lengthy meals at Can Fabes). They said I should leave too, but that was of course not in the works. I had to continue until the very end, to see the silliness and stupidity of the blown up gloves. My dining companion wanted to walk out again after the first 1/2 of the meal (which admittedly was the inferior of the two halves, although that is only relative).
Adria is not a good chef. That climate controlled box he had close to his desk for the shiso leaves -- that is not dedication or passion. It is stupidity. Let a shiso leaf grow in the garden, or, if it not natural to one's surroundings, don't put it in one of those boxes and pretend you are a great chef as a result of that stupidity.
Don't feed me parmesan foam with some dried fruits in a styrofoam take-out box with a paper wrapper, and tell me that's good food, because it is not. Perhaps the parmesan goes to how I was not inclined to like Adria's manipulation aspects to begin with. What's wrong with a beautifully aged piece of parmesan reggiano? A chef shouldn't disturb that just because he can. There has to be a reason, and, at a minimum, the manipulation should not be displeasing relative to the original state. At a minimum, the manipulated version should taste good. I understand the potential benefit of diner surprise, but, that has to be balanced against the other merits of a dish. Diner surprise only works if one's cuisine is otherwise good-tasting and the surprise is combined with that taste.
BTW, why is the electric milk called "milk"?
All that being said, I have pursued a second reservation (unsuccessfully so far) because I am intersted in seeing if the next experience will be as disastrous as the first. But there were so many dishes that were off or worse that I know the first experience is indicative. I am not saying that other diners would not like EB, but I certainly didn't and I don't ever believe I will. But EB is close to a restaurant I do plan to go back to again, Can Fabes. So, in a way, if I get an EB reservation, I would be going to Can Fabes principally and EB as a sort of detour.
Orik
Sep 25 2005, 01:33 PM
| QUOTE (Kikujiro @ Sep 25 2005, 09:19 AM) |
| I think the focus from some quarters on the more shocker elements (like the allegedly largely uneaten dish described here) obscures the fact that at least in my meal these featured very little to not at all. |
Understood. But what I'm curious about isn't the shock value, but why this is presented as discovery/innovation?
cabrales
Sep 25 2005, 01:54 PM
It's not discovery/innovation. It's a sad sad part of the meal, and a reflection of a chef who is grossly overrated. If I were the keeper of Michelin stars, Adria would stretch to get one.
If you shock your diners' mouths because you create something so unusual (negative), so ugly, so difficult to taste that they are shocked, that is obviously not a good thing.
The tarragon is as bad. It is on a tiny spoon, and looks sort of innucuous. But it is sharp and jolting and terrible.
Kikujiro
Sep 25 2005, 01:58 PM
| QUOTE (Orik @ Sep 25 2005, 01:33 PM) |
| Understood. But what I'm curious about isn't the shock value, but why this is presented as discovery/innovation? |
Orik, I dunno, as I haven't eaten it and don't know enough about it.
edit: btw, from descriptions it was some kind of flower, not peppercorns or -corn oil.
Kikujiro
Sep 25 2005, 02:00 PM
| QUOTE (cabrales @ Sep 25 2005, 01:22 PM) |
| BTW, why is the electric milk called "milk"? |
| QUOTE (Louisa Chu @ Sep 25 2005, 12:50 PM) |
| ... the dehydrated milk reduction cracker ... |
Orik
Sep 25 2005, 02:11 PM
| QUOTE (Kikujiro @ Sep 25 2005, 09:58 AM) |
edit: btw, from descriptions it was some kind of flower, not peppercorns or -corn oil. |
Isn't Sichuan pepper flower just a different name for sichuan peppercorn?
I mentioned the oil because it's the most effective way to convey the battery acid sensation.
Farid
Sep 25 2005, 03:34 PM
I have a recipe and presentation for "dehydrated smen reduction cracker" but it's too rude to post.
cabrales
Sep 25 2005, 03:46 PM
Also, if I am remembering this correctly without my notes, the caphira item -- part of its dramatic effect is how it is "mixed" in front of the diner on a cart. There is a lot of cloudy vapour uncurling from the contraption where this thing is being mixed at one point. I thought to myself, if I wanted this, I would be go to a bad circus performance instead.
It's more cheesy than Benihana.
But the whole first half had bad tastes. The carrot ribbon was not good tasting. I don't care if carrot had been made into a ribbon if it tastes really bad. At least I think it was carrot ribbon without my notes. Although at least the ribbon item was not affirmatively repugnant like the electric milk.
Some very bad tasting things can be shocking. But that just means the chef is misguided in trying to shock at the cost of having the diner experience something very bad.
Wilfrid1
Sep 28 2005, 02:16 PM
Not having been, I have no opinion, but there is some very entertaining writing on this thread.
Tuckerman
Sep 29 2005, 08:06 AM
| QUOTE (cabrales @ Sep 23 2005, 01:46 PM) |
Also, if I am remembering this correctly without my notes, the caphira item -- part of its dramatic effect is how it is "mixed" in front of the diner on a cart. There is a lot of cloudy vapour uncurling from the contraption where this thing is being mixed at one point. I thought to myself, if I wanted this, I would be go to a bad circus performance instead. |
And there lies the rub. El Bulli is food as theatre-or circus. The food is not there to be enjoyed. Or if it is, that is a secondary purpose. It is fantasy, it is play, it is smoke (literally) and mirrors. If one goes there expecting to be served a delicious meal then one is going to be hugely disappointed, because Adria has no intention whatsoever of serving up a delicious meal. So much of the food is left uneaten, and yet the waiters never ask "was that OK, sir (or madam)? Is there anything wrong?". They're not interested in whether anything's "wrong". They know that diners are not going to eat a lot of the food.
Now, why would a chef want to cook people dishes, many of which he knows full well people are not going to enjoy? Because "enjoyment" is not his goal.He's like a semi insane/semi genius kid let loose with a grown up culinary chemistry set, and serving up whatever concoctions emerge from his febrile imagination. If they're horrible, they're horrible-never mind, here's the next one. And what's up next is part of the fun.
You HAVE to buy into this schtick to enjoy El Bulli. You know the type of experience you're in for and you have to give yourself over to it for the evening if you're to get anything out of it.
If you're not prepared to do this, you really are better off not going in the first place.
fredbram
Sep 29 2005, 06:57 PM
After our meal at ElBulli in July, my comparison has been that it is like the Cirque de Soleil of the restaurant world. I enjoyed Eb very much, just as I really enjoy Cirque performances--but I would not want a constant diet of Cirque and no other theatre, just as I would not want a constant diet of Eb and no other restaurants.
I found it to be unique, funny, and entertaining for my taste buds and my mind. I would go back to Can Fabes before I would go back to Eb (assuming I had the option).
pim
Sep 30 2005, 07:37 AM
| QUOTE (fredbram @ Sep 27 2005, 04:57 PM) |
| I would go back to Can Fabes before I would go back to Eb (assuming I had the option). |
Not Can Roca?
Silly Disciple
Sep 30 2005, 08:27 AM
I had this same discussion with a friend not long ago. We both concluded we would rather go back to CR before going back to eB
Tuckerman
Sep 30 2005, 09:06 AM
I can see no point in going back to El Bulli once you have been, unless you become some kind of avid fan. It is a thoroughly fun and unusual experience, but not one anyone really needs repeat- just like the Cirque de Soleil in fact
I fully intend returning to both Can Roca and possibly Can Fabes too.
ampletuna
Sep 30 2005, 09:10 AM
| QUOTE (Tuckerman @ Sep 30 2005, 10:06 AM) |
| I can see no point in going back to El Bulli once you have been, unless you become some kind of avid fan. |
and, IMO, much like the Fat Duck, whose menu is
still fundamentally the same.
where is Can Roca? it sounds like I've got to get myself over there.
Tuckerman
Sep 30 2005, 10:04 AM
| QUOTE (ampletuna @ Sep 28 2005, 07:10 AM) |
where is Can Roca? it sounds like I've got to get myself over there. |
It's in Gerona
cabrales
Sep 30 2005, 12:54 PM
| QUOTE (Tuckerman @ Sep 30 2005, 04:06 AM) |
| I can see no point in going back to El Bulli once you have been, unless you become some kind of avid fan. |
I've never been to CR, so I plan to go (although it is a lower priority). I hope to return to Can Fabes during game season, but that may take a couple of years to coordinate on timing. This is supposed to be one of the best three-stars for
feathered game (my preferred type of game, of course).
I believe there's value in revisiting EB even though I significantly disliked my first meal there. I am certain I won't like subsequent meals subjectively, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't want to try and understand the chef's cuisine better.
fredbram
Sep 30 2005, 01:03 PM
| QUOTE (pim @ Sep 30 2005, 01:37 AM) |
| QUOTE (fredbram @ Sep 27 2005, 04:57 PM) | | I would go back to Can Fabes before I would go back to Eb (assuming I had the option). |
Not Can Roca?
|
Yes, Can Roca also. One of the things that happened after ElBulli is that I experienced a great need for more traditional food--that's why Can Fabes came to mind first, but I would return to both in a heartbeat. I did find Can Fabes to be every bit as good a meal as Can Roca, possibly more satisfying.
Tuckerman
Sep 30 2005, 06:29 PM
| QUOTE (cabrales @ Sep 28 2005, 10:54 AM) |
| I am certain I won't like subsequent meals subjectively, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't want to try and understand the chef's cuisine better. |
I'm not sure what better there is to understand at El Bulli. It's not complicated. I got it in an instant. The fact that there might be 20 differnt dishes on the menu next time won't alter the concept.
cabrales
Sep 30 2005, 07:17 PM
SillyDisciple -- Since I am going to CR sooner or later, could you advise on where you stayed when you were dining at CR? Also, any dishes that were particularly memorable?
Silly Disciple
Sep 30 2005, 08:27 PM
| QUOTE (cabrales @ Sep 30 2005, 07:17 PM) |
| SillyDisciple -- Since I am going to CR sooner or later, could you advise on where you stayed when you were dining at CR? Also, any dishes that were particularly memorable? |
I live in Barcelona, so I just drove to Girona and back (after the full menu and several bottles of cava and wine, driving back was no walk in the park, I must say...).
The menu is highly seasonal, so not sure you'll find the same dishes.
I think the most memorable thing was the meal in itself, ie each and every one of the dishes was remarkable, there wasn't one I didn't like.
But to the point, if I had to name 3 or 4 dishes (apologies if the translations are awful, I got the menu in Spanish):
- the foie gras turron.
- the seafood (crustaceans according to the menu) veloute with cacao and mint onions.
- smoked tuna belly with ginger and cherries.
- pigeon with rice and its liver and orange
I'm planning on going back pretty soon.
dekay
Sep 30 2005, 09:30 PM
Can Roca. On the fast track for its *** after they re-locate to their new luxe location after the first of the year...
And deserving.
cabrales
Sep 30 2005, 09:45 PM
So they are relocating only from 1.1.06?
dekay
Oct 1 2005, 01:00 AM
My understanding is it is still a bit off. it will be in downtown Girona, certainly more accessible to dining travellers. From what I hear it is not until at least after the first of the year.
They talk quite freely about the re-location if you ask when you dine there.
Tuckerman
Oct 1 2005, 10:51 AM
| QUOTE (Silly Disciple @ Sep 28 2005, 06:27 PM) |
But to the point, if I had to name 3 or 4 dishes (apologies if the translations are awful, I got the menu in Spanish): - the foie gras turron. - the seafood (crustaceans according to the menu) veloute with cacao and mint onions. - smoked tuna belly with ginger and cherries. - pigeon with rice and its liver and orange
I'm planning on going back pretty soon. |
Red Mullet with Orange Sauce, White Asparagus and Cardomom Mousseline
Soup of Comte and Onion
Lobster Cream with Mint Foam, Mint "Jewels" and Chocolate (as per above)
Oloroso Ice Cream, rich Coffee Syrup, Ginger Biscuit and Chocolate
Silly Disciple
Oct 1 2005, 01:32 PM
| QUOTE (Tuckerman @ Oct 1 2005, 10:51 AM) |
| QUOTE (Silly Disciple @ Sep 28 2005, 06:27 PM) | But to the point, if I had to name 3 or 4 dishes (apologies if the translations are awful, I got the menu in Spanish): - the foie gras turron. - the seafood (crustaceans according to the menu) veloute with cacao and mint onions. - smoked tuna belly with ginger and cherries. - pigeon with rice and its liver and orange
I'm planning on going back pretty soon. |
Red Mullet with Orange Sauce, White Asparagus and Cardomom Mousseline
Soup of Comte and Onion
Lobster Cream with Mint Foam, Mint "Jewels" and Chocolate (as per above)
Oloroso Ice Cream, rich Coffee Syrup, Ginger Biscuit and Chocolate
|
Thanks Tuckerman for the correction on the veloute.
I had the Comte Soup and the Red Mullet as well, both were excellent.
Tuckerman
Oct 1 2005, 04:17 PM
| QUOTE (Silly Disciple @ Sep 29 2005, 11:32 AM) |
Thanks Tuckerman for the correction on the veloute. |
Actually SD, come to think of it I think it's described on the menu as "Lobster Bisque". although it is much thicker than a traditional bisque-more like a puree or a cream
Silly Disciple
Oct 1 2005, 04:25 PM
| QUOTE (Tuckerman @ Oct 1 2005, 04:17 PM) |
| QUOTE (Silly Disciple @ Sep 29 2005, 11:32 AM) | Thanks Tuckerman for the correction on the veloute. |
Actually SD, come to think of it I think it's described on the menu as "Lobster Bisque". although it is much thicker than a traditional bisque-more like a puree or a cream |
well, a veloute is technically speaking a thickened stock of some kind, no?
usually chicken/fish stock + roux, I think, although I doubt Roca uses straight roux for it .
Tuckerman
Oct 1 2005, 05:09 PM
The dish is so beautiful to look at. The Lobster Bisque is studded with tiny emerald green jewels of limpid glycreinie mint, and centered with the mint foam. It looks for all the world like a brooch
Silly Disciple
Oct 1 2005, 05:25 PM
| QUOTE (Tuckerman @ Oct 1 2005, 05:09 PM) |
The dish is so beautiful to look at. The Lobster Bisque is studded with tiny emerald green jewels of limpid glycreinie mint, and centered with the mint foam. It looks for all the world like a brooch |
right so.
cabrales
Oct 1 2005, 05:38 PM
I wonder what sort of lobster is in that dish. I have a strong interest in langouste, cigales de mer, different types of lobster, crab from different waters in the world. I especially like Brittany Lobster from the waters surrounding the tiny islands of Contentin.
Silly Disciple
Oct 1 2005, 07:16 PM
Bogavante in Spanish, Llamantol in Catalan. According to Davidson, Homarus Gammarus.
I would think Roca get's most of his stuff locally, possibly at the fish market in Roses.
cabrales
Oct 1 2005, 08:03 PM
Silly Disciple -- Thanks for all this info. What are the restaurants you would recommend in Barcelona itself?
Silly Disciple
Oct 1 2005, 08:14 PM
| QUOTE (cabrales @ Oct 1 2005, 08:03 PM) |
| Silly Disciple -- Thanks for all this info. What are the restaurants you would recommend in Barcelona itself? |
I recently posted this list on eG:
| QUOTE |
10 things/places I wouldn't miss if visiting Barcelona: 1. El Celler de Can Roca. 2. Tapas at Quimet i Quimet. 3. Cinc Sentits. 4. hand cut Jamon Iberico de Bellota at Jamonisimo. 5. Hisop. 6. 70% chocolate rajoles from Enric Rovira. 7. Colibri. 8. Early morning visit to La Boqueria. 9. Montadito and Cava at La Champanyeria, where it not packed with tourists. 10. fresh ice cream at Cremeria Toscana.
6 things/places I think are over-hyped: 1. Cal Pep 2. Comerē 24 3. Estrella de Plata 4. Cata 181 5. machine cut ham at La Boqueria 6. Cacao Sampaka
wanted to go all the way up to 10, but can't think of more right now.
|
I would add to the over hype:
7. Pinotxo @ La Boqueria. don't go to Pinotxo as a destination. The market itself is a destination, and there are several good bars in it, such as El Quim. Pinotxo is over hyped.
dekay
Oct 1 2005, 08:34 PM
| QUOTE (Silly Disciple @ Oct 1 2005, 12:14 PM) |
| QUOTE (cabrales @ Oct 1 2005, 08:03 PM) | | Silly Disciple -- Thanks for all this info. What are the restaurants you would recommend in Barcelona itself? |
I recently posted this list on eG:
| QUOTE | 10 things/places I wouldn't miss if visiting Barcelona: 1. El Celler de Can Roca. 2. Tapas at Quimet i Quimet. 3. Cinc Sentits. 4. hand cut Jamon Iberico de Bellota at Jamonisimo. 5. Hisop. 6. 70% chocolate rajoles from Enric Rovira. 7. Colibri. 8. Early morning visit to La Boqueria. 9. Montadito and Cava at La Champanyeria, where it not packed with tourists. 10. fresh ice cream at Cremeria Toscana.
6 things/places I think are over-hyped: 1. Cal Pep 2. Comerē 24 3. Estrella de Plata 4. Cata 181 5. machine cut ham at La Boqueria 6. Cacao Sampaka
wanted to go all the way up to 10, but can't think of more right now.
|
I would add to the over hype: 7. Pinotxo @ La Boqueria. don't go to Pinotxo as a destination. The market itself is a destination, and there are several good bars in it, such as El Quim. Pinotxo is over hyped.
|
I would add Alkimia to the list of places to try.
I enjoyed that meal quite alot.
Can Fabes is not in Barcelona (then again neither is Can Roca) so shouldn't be on the list but I love that place. People either love or hate that place though...
I bet Cabrales would like it. But i am not a betting man...
Silly Disciple
Oct 1 2005, 08:43 PM
| QUOTE (dekay @ Oct 1 2005, 08:34 PM) |
I would add Alkimia to the list of places to try. I enjoyed that meal quite alot. Can Fabes is not in Barcelona (then again neither is Can Roca) so shouldn't be on the list but I love that place. People either love or hate that place though... I bet Cabrales would like it. But i am not a betting man... |
Although I've been there only once, Alkimia would possibly be on my over-hyped list. The service is plain horrible and the food, while good, is in my opinion pretentious.
In an intent to marry traditional dishes with modern techniques (it seems everyone these days wants to cook traditional and follow Adria), the food ends up being an intellectual game which is not here nor there.
Moreover, I find that some of the product pairings (the guy is obsessed with chocolate it seems) just don't work.
cabrales
Oct 1 2005, 08:46 PM
I like Alkimia, and have posted about it on this board.
I like Can Fabes quite a bit.

The chef made a piece of lard adjacent to the neck of a pig, with caviar that was wonderful. Also, a very nice signature dish of shrimp ravioli, with the raw flesh of veined shrimp being the "ravioli" skin. Very nice deconstruction/reconstruction of tomato, in a dish.
Miguel Gierbolini
Oct 1 2005, 09:19 PM
| QUOTE (cabrales @ Oct 1 2005, 12:38 PM) |
| I wonder what sort of lobster is in that dish. I have a strong interest in langouste, cigales de mer, different types of lobster, crab from different waters in the world. I especially like Brittany Lobster from the waters surrounding the tiny islands of Contentin. |
Spiny lobster here does not look like that Cab. Are you coming down?
cabrales
Oct 2 2005, 12:59 AM
I'm thinking. Tempted, but also tempted by revisit to Bordeaux.

I am becoming an aspiring wine person.
Kikujiro
Oct 2 2005, 06:55 PM
| QUOTE (Silly Disciple @ Oct 1 2005, 08:43 PM) |
| Although I've been there only once, Alkimia would possibly be on my over-hyped list. |
I was underwhelmed by Alkimia (
see here). But I'd tentatively mention Espai Sucre, which is fairly unique.
I had to choose between Cremeria Toscana and Jamonissimo, so didn't get the icecream

Next time.
Silly Disciple
Oct 2 2005, 07:29 PM
| QUOTE (Kikujiro @ Oct 2 2005, 06:55 PM) |
| QUOTE (Silly Disciple @ Oct 1 2005, 08:43 PM) | | Although I've been there only once, Alkimia would possibly be on my over-hyped list. |
I was underwhelmed by Alkimia ( see here). But I'd tentatively mention Espai Sucre, which is fairly unique. I had to choose between Cremeria Toscana and Jamonissimo, so didn't get the icecream  Next time. |
you chose wisely

.
I'm taking a pastry course at Espai Sucre at the moment, but haven't had the chance to eat at their restaurant yet. Hopefully I will, soon.
Kikujiro
Oct 2 2005, 07:52 PM
Actual pastry pastry was the weakest element of their desserts ... that and the overspiced chocolate soupy thing. The rest was great.
Peter Creasey
Oct 25 2007, 02:12 PM
QUOTE
Pioneer, genius, magician. Even among the world's elite chefs, Ferran Adria is pretty special. But what gave him the idea to encase egg yolks in caramel? What does he make of Jamie Oliver? And can Susie Rushton manage to jump the 125-year queue at his restaurant, El Bulli?
Published: 25 October 2007
READ THE ARTICLE...
Bulli for him: Ferran Adria on why he's the greatest
nuxvomica
Oct 25 2007, 03:03 PM
and bulli for me - just got my "sorry but no" email
Orik
Apr 8 2008, 07:58 PM
does anyone have a reservation to sell?
bigbear
Apr 19 2008, 01:35 PM
Gary Leff's visit to
El Bulli. Lots of photos.
yvonne johnson
Apr 19 2008, 03:26 PM
I enjoyed that. Good photos and the food looks appetizing. Gives you a good idea of the location too.
Kimchi
Apr 19 2008, 05:05 PM
I enjoyed it as well -- thank you for the link, bigbear!
Aaron T
Jun 1 2008, 03:07 AM
Interesting article on a philosophical dispute between Ferran Adrią of el Bulli and Santi Santamarķa of Can Fabes in the Times
here.
yvonne johnson
Jun 1 2008, 04:01 AM
QUOTE(Aaron T @ May 31 2008, 11:07 PM)

Interesting article on a philosophical dispute between Ferran Adrią of el Bulli and Santi Santamarķa of Can Fabes in the Times
here. NYT three weeks late as usual.
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