Jump to content


Photo

Horse Racing


  • Please log in to reply
192 replies to this topic

#1 mitchells

mitchells

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 8,435 posts

Posted 30 January 2007 - 06:24 PM

Moving this over from the Barbaro thread.

Horse racing is a sport and Barbaro was an athlete. He was bred to be a race horse.

He was a great horse that had a too short career.

I personally don't see where anyone was cruel or inhumane or perverse or obscene.

Are there owners and trainers that mistreat their horses, sure. Just like there are pet owners that mistreat their pets, and people that mistreat other people.

Doesn't mean the whole institution needs to be dissolved.

All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusions is called a philosopher.
Ambrose Bierce

#2 Stone

Stone

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 15,605 posts

Posted 30 January 2007 - 06:27 PM

I have trouble conferring "athlete" status on a horse.

Is a race car an athlete?

#3 mitchells

mitchells

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 8,435 posts

Posted 30 January 2007 - 06:31 PM

I have trouble conferring "athlete" status on a horse.

Is a race car an athlete?


No, a race car is a piece of machinery built by man.

A race horse is a living thing that is trained to compete and run fast, just like human athletes.

You need to get to Saratoga this summer. Your view will change overnight.

All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusions is called a philosopher.
Ambrose Bierce

#4 FaustianBargain

FaustianBargain

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,507 posts

Posted 30 January 2007 - 06:42 PM

the difference between an athlete and a race horse is that an athlete will and can express when he wants to quit. eta: someone mentioned in the barbaro thread that children are trained to be athletes too. i would condemn them too if they are pushed past the point of exhaustion. which is the whole point of 'training'.

i think you will agree with me that the use of drugs for enhanced performance is not uncommon wrt race horses. also, most drugs administered for the athlete's enchanced performance are voluntary.

i dont see horse racing different from greyhound races.

eta: breeding horses for racing is like breeding women to bear children. horses can race and women can bear children, but it is only one part of what they are...
i am not a cancer, i am a sagittarius.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

#5 mitchells

mitchells

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 8,435 posts

Posted 30 January 2007 - 06:48 PM

the difference between an athlete and a race horse is that an athlete will and can express when he wants to quit.


So does a horse. He stops running fast.

All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusions is called a philosopher.
Ambrose Bierce

#6 Stone

Stone

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 15,605 posts

Posted 30 January 2007 - 06:49 PM


I have trouble conferring "athlete" status on a horse.

Is a race car an athlete?


No, a race car is a piece of machinery built by man.

A race horse is a living thing that is trained to compete and run fast, just like human athletes.

You need to get to Saratoga this summer. Your view will change overnight.

It's still a horse. However beautiful, strong, talented, etc.
I think you're making a category error.

#7 Ron Johnson

Ron Johnson

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 8,958 posts

Posted 30 January 2007 - 06:50 PM

the difference between an athlete and a race horse is that an athlete will and can express when he wants to quit.


horses can too. I mean this with all due respect. Do you know anything about this sport? I know that you know a lot about being a vegetarian, and while I disagreed with your take on Bourdain, I had to admit that you were arguing from an informed point of view. But, when it comes to horseracing so many of your statements are based on totally false premises. If a horse wants to quit running, guess what it does? It quits. It stops. There is no amount of whipping that a 100 lb. jockey can do that will make a racehorse do something that it doesn't want to do. These horses love to race. It is all that they want to do. They live or it. They hate sleeping, eating, or resting. They don't want to play or be petted. Most of them are mean as hell, and the reason is that they are pissed that they aren't running full speed. That is all that they want to do. Do you want the major role of a jockey is during a horse race? It is to hold the horse back, to make him slow down. These animals are brutally competitive and they love those two minutes in the race more than any other moments in their life.

#8 FaustianBargain

FaustianBargain

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,507 posts

Posted 30 January 2007 - 06:51 PM


the difference between an athlete and a race horse is that an athlete will and can express when he wants to quit.


So does a horse. He stops running fast.


are you telling me there is no instance of drug abuse in this industry? i'd imagine a tired horse would stop running if there wasnt a jockey sitting on top of him.

horses(and jockeys) can be fatally wounded on a race track.
i am not a cancer, i am a sagittarius.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

#9 Stone

Stone

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 15,605 posts

Posted 30 January 2007 - 06:53 PM

I guess she'd be happier if the horse was out on the plains, nursing an infected wound from a tree branch, hobbled by torn achilles tendon ripped out by a hyena, starving thin because the drought killed its food, and just waiting for a mountain lion to jump on its back and rip its spinal cord out.

That's happy horse.

#10 Ron Johnson

Ron Johnson

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 8,958 posts

Posted 30 January 2007 - 06:54 PM



the difference between an athlete and a race horse is that an athlete will and can express when he wants to quit.


So does a horse. He stops running fast.


are you telling me there is no instance of drug abuse in this industry?


I believe you are thinking of major leagur baseball. Do we have a Barry Bonds or Mark McGuire thread?

Please stop saying things that aren't true. They don't run because a jockey is sitting on them. The weight of a jockey on them is like the weight of a purse on a woman. They would run anyway. It is what they do.

Yes, horses break down sometimes when racing. It is sad, but it happens in the fields too. The racing industry has spent millions of dollars on new surfaces that minimize the risk of breakdowns.

#11 mitchells

mitchells

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 8,435 posts

Posted 30 January 2007 - 06:57 PM



the difference between an athlete and a race horse is that an athlete will and can express when he wants to quit.


So does a horse. He stops running fast.


i'd imagine a tired horse would stop running if there wasnt a jockey sitting on top of him.



Wrong again. They keep running.

There are times when a jockey falls off of a horse at the start of the race and guess what, the horse keeps running and needs to be caught by the outriders.

All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusions is called a philosopher.
Ambrose Bierce

#12 mitchells

mitchells

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 8,435 posts

Posted 30 January 2007 - 07:03 PM

Ron, please try to get Stone to Churchill or Keeneland.

I'll keep trying to get him to Saratoga. Just watching the horses work in the morning is something to see.

All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusions is called a philosopher.
Ambrose Bierce

#13 Lippy

Lippy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10,462 posts

Posted 30 January 2007 - 07:09 PM

I'll keep trying to get him to Saratoga. Just watching the horses work in the morning is something to see.


You're making me long for August.

#14 FaustianBargain

FaustianBargain

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,507 posts

Posted 30 January 2007 - 07:11 PM


the difference between an athlete and a race horse is that an athlete will and can express when he wants to quit.


horses can too. I mean this with all due respect. Do you know anything about this sport? I know that you know a lot about being a vegetarian, and while I disagreed with your take on Bourdain, I had to admit that you were arguing from an informed point of view. But, when it comes to horseracing so many of your statements are based on totally false premises. If a horse wants to quit running, guess what it does? It quits. It stops. There is no amount of whipping that a 100 lb. jockey can do that will make a racehorse do something that it doesn't want to do. These horses love to race. It is all that they want to do. They live or it. They hate sleeping, eating, or resting. They don't want to play or be petted. Most of them are mean as hell, and the reason is that they are pissed that they aren't running full speed. That is all that they want to do. Do you want the major role of a jockey is during a horse race? It is to hold the horse back, to make him slow down. These animals are brutally competitive and they love those two minutes in the race more than any other moments in their life.


i have to concede that i am not that well informed about horse racing. which is why i asked if you were indeed from kentucky or if you are closely associated with horse racing. mitchells is, apparently.

but i know a little. please correct me when i am wrong.

thoroughbred horses are especially bred for racing. would anyone even breed thoroughbreds if not for races? other than entertainment, these horses wouldnt exist. what form of eugenics is this..to create a being solely for entertainment and gambling....which is merely an extension of gambling. it is not for the love of animals for i know many people who enjoy horses simply for what they are....

i have been around horses only a few times in my life. there are race clubs in both chennai and bangalore. you can hear the ground beneath your feet thud as the horses approach you...and these magnificent animals are being riden..for what? for gamblers. and i make no excuse for my rudeness or bias. gambling is so utterly depraved and it only gets uglier when animals are exploited.

what is worse is how these animals are treated after their racing days are over. how many lesser horses are euthanised or slaughtered for meat/petfood/hide because the owners couldnt care less. a whole index of actions stemming from callous indifference and can be penned just beyond the 'retirement' of these beautiful creatures bred for entertainment.

tell me..because you claim to know more than me....what percentage of thoroughbreds retire in relative comfort? what percentage are euthanised because their racing years are over? what percentage are euthanised because they are not fit enough or too injured to race? what percentage of the total number of thoroughbreds that are bred actually see the tracks? what happens to the rest? given that they are bred to race, where do they end up when they don't race? also, let us talk about the average number of injuries and falls they sustain during their racing careers.
i am not a cancer, i am a sagittarius.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

#15 FaustianBargain

FaustianBargain

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,507 posts

Posted 30 January 2007 - 07:15 PM




the difference between an athlete and a race horse is that an athlete will and can express when he wants to quit.


So does a horse. He stops running fast.


are you telling me there is no instance of drug abuse in this industry?


I believe you are thinking of major leagur baseball. Do we have a Barry Bonds or Mark McGuire thread?

Please stop saying things that aren't true. They don't run because a jockey is sitting on them. The weight of a jockey on them is like the weight of a purse on a woman. They would run anyway. It is what they do.

Yes, horses break down sometimes when racing. It is sad, but it happens in the fields too. The racing industry has spent millions of dollars on new surfaces that minimize the risk of breakdowns.


if they would run anyway, why is there a jockey on top of a horse? cant we let them 'race' by themselves? slip in a rfid chip and let them run on the mountains and figure who wins? no? didnt think so. not fun enough?

horses break down SOMETIMES? as in the fields? the racing industry has spent millions of dollars to protect their invested millions on these thoroughbreds...logical enough. so what's your point?
i am not a cancer, i am a sagittarius.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?