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#16 cabrales

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Posted 11 August 2004 - 08:30 PM

ADNY is not a loss leader for the whole Ducasse organization. I doubt that that many people would go to Ducasse's French/Italian establishments because they experienced a good meal at ADNY. If they are likely customers for his French/Italian (leave aside Asian Spoons, etc.) establishments, they will likely already know Plaza Athenee and Louis XV and therefore not need to acquaint themselves with Ducasse cuisine through ADNY. :D

#17 Chocolate is a girls best friend

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Posted 11 August 2004 - 09:01 PM

Megu is a goner!
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#18 Wilfrid1

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Posted 11 August 2004 - 09:05 PM

I doubt that that many people would go to Ducasse's French/Italian establishments because they experienced a good meal at ADNY.

No indeed, because promoting brand awareness is very different from advertising. Philip Morris does not sponsor art galleries in the hope that visitors will therefore go out and buy a pack of cigarettes. Promotion of the brand is intended to develop a general positive awareness, among consumers, of the brand, its imagery and associations, and the products which carry it, such that - should a consumer be in the market for a holiday at a smart French resort, offers associated with the Ducasse brand will be viewed with positive recognition. I never suggested that people would learn of the existence of Ducasse's other restaurants through dining at Ducasse. Quite apart from branding, even advertising works more subtly than that. Advertisements for Colgate toothpaste are not primarily designed to inform consumers of its existence.

I'm sure a professional could explain it better.

Anyway, if it's not profitable (we speculate), and not a loss leader, what is it. I don't find reference to Ducasse's personal vanity a sufficient explanation, because I should have thought decisions at Groupe Alain Ducasse were made on a more commercial basis. I guess it's possible, though.
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#19 g.johnson

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Posted 11 August 2004 - 09:23 PM

Anyway, if it's not profitable (we speculate), and not a loss leader, what is it.

I don't doubt that's what it is. But how much are Ducasse and the Essex House prepared to pay for that function?
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#20 Orik

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Posted 11 August 2004 - 09:27 PM

A friend once returned from Paris and told me he ate at Alain Ducasse, Guy Savoy and Michel Rostang. Turned out he meant Spoon, Les Bookinistes and Bistro d'à côté.


Wilf -- the list is reasonably reliable, although it may be outdated. Of course it's possible that there are mistakes. I notice they've removed their "won't last" indication from PF&W.
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#21 Chocolate is a girls best friend

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Posted 12 August 2004 - 02:29 PM

A friend once returned from Paris and told me he ate at Alain Ducasse, Guy Savoy and Michel Rostang. Turned out he meant Spoon, Les Bookinistes and Bistro d'à côté.


Wilf -- the list is reasonably reliable, although it may be outdated. Of course it's possible that there are mistakes. I notice they've removed their "won't last" indication from PF&W.

i ate les bookinistes when i was studying in Paris, it was probably one of my most disappointing meals, not to mention the whole place was filled with americans..... it was not my idea to go, i should add, as it was a meal paid by a friend of mine going on the recommendation of another.
"One can live without artists, and can live without books

but civilized man can not live without cooks," anonymous

#22 SFJoe

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Posted 12 August 2004 - 06:22 PM

Megu is a goner!

Seems plausible, but how do you tell?

#23 yvonne johnson

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 06:30 PM

Based on Wilf's recent post on Mix, do we second mitchell's adding Mix to the mix?
It was not a new dish, as I recognised my tooth marks. Wilfrid

#24 cabrales

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 06:00 PM

Yes. While I haven't taken in food under the current chef, I give Mix three years. So it won't be the next restaurant to fail, but it will likley do so, in my assessment.

#25 g.johnson

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 06:05 PM

Ducasse is not going to allow ADNY to close, because it would be a slap in the face and a source of ridicule.

I give Mix three years.

:huh: :D
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#26 Wilfrid1

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 07:03 PM

I don't know the relative holdings of China Grill Management and Groupe Alain Ducasse (and others?) in Mix, and I imagine one would need to know somewhat more about how these fairly large restaurant groups are performing generally, and what their plans are over the next five years, to provide informed speculation. It's one thing to evaluate the performance of a stand-alone restaurant; I think it's much harder to know what is going on when a group is involved, let alone two groups. I certainly agree - see the Mix thread - that as an individual restaurant Mix appears to be under-performing, based on anecdotal evidence and observation.
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***Every Monday***At the Sign of the Pink Pig.

If the author could go around the place hitting random readers with a rubber hammer, the Pink Pig would still be worth a visit.

#27 Wilfrid1

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 06:49 PM

I walked past First yesterday, and saw all the guts were ripped out. Now it might be a refurb, of course, but it did look like a closure.
Elect-a-lujah

***Every Monday***At the Sign of the Pink Pig.

If the author could go around the place hitting random readers with a rubber hammer, the Pink Pig would still be worth a visit.

#28 yvonne johnson

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 06:56 PM

That was reported in yesterday's Times I think--it's closing. The chef's going somehwere else.
It was not a new dish, as I recognised my tooth marks. Wilfrid

#29 Daisy

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 06:56 PM

It's definitely closed--it was mentioned in yesterday's Times. Sam De Marco is starting some other venture---I couldn't find this on line so sorry about the sketchy details.
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#30 Wilfrid1

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 06:58 PM

Fair enough, the Times beat us at last. :D
Elect-a-lujah

***Every Monday***At the Sign of the Pink Pig.

If the author could go around the place hitting random readers with a rubber hammer, the Pink Pig would still be worth a visit.