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#2431 Sneakeater

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 05:01 PM

"Villages", not "Village"
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#2432 Sneakeater

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 05:04 PM

Or are you saying that you could never ever (even with declassification) put grapes from a primary Village into a "Villages" wine?
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#2433 Chambolle

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 05:08 PM

The egregious errors that I must deal with on Mouthfuls is infuriating.

 

Most infuriating is that it misrepresents my beloved Burgundy and cuts into my beloved beach time !

 

I will address these matters in due course ...



#2434 Sneakeater

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 05:10 PM

I look forward to being schooled.
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#2435 Orik

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 05:10 PM

That's a little unfair.

The Slovenians/Friulians admit they copied using amphorae from the Georgians, who were doing it first.

 

Weird by the weirdest Slovenian amphoric standards. Probably amplified by Leflaive + Rossignol-Trapet earlier. 


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#2436 Anthony Bonner

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 06:05 PM

I was in Georgia in its 2005. If amphorae were in wide use at wineries I visited then Katz's is a dairy restaurant.

I fully believe that pre 1917 amphorae may have been in use.

"This is a battle of who blinks first, and we've cut off our eyelids"


#2437 Anthony Bonner

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 06:06 PM

I need to go to Udine for work. I am not displeased by this.

"This is a battle of who blinks first, and we've cut off our eyelids"


#2438 balex

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 06:54 PM

Not sure I understand the way declassification works either. So If you have a bottle which is "Gevrey-Chambertin" then it can contain Grand Cru grapes from vineyards in G-C in some circumstances,

as can generic Bourgogne Rouge -- but Cote de Nuits Villages is a specific appellation which doesn't have any grand cru vineyards in, so couldn't contain any declassified wines. Is  that the right analysis?

 

I am having some Leroy 2004 tonight which has some declassified wine in.

 

(ETA, but there are some Fixin 1e cru vineyards which could go into it? I realize I don't understand)



#2439 Chambolle

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 09:17 PM

Just back from the SoFi Walgreens with two cases of tequila.

 

Saw three Ferraris, a couple Lambos, a bunch of Bentleys and a Rolls ... all tops down. It's pretty tame down here mid-week.

 

Hopped into the SoBe Whole Foods for a sack of blood oranges and a zupply of Siggi's "more protein than sugar" yogurts.

 

Do any of the pretty, tanned customers in this Whole Foods speak English ? And if they do, have any of them NOT had a boob job ?

 

Saw a seriously hot, seriously young chick ... probably sweet sixteen ... with a beach bag labeled - Shopping IS my cardio !

 

After all that, Chambo's seriously shopped out and my heart is racing like a Porsche GT3. (Oh yeah, saw that too !)

 

But I know, I know, I know, that's illegal here !

 

Sixteen year olds, that is.

 

Nevertheless we in the West wonder why ill ISIL is infiltrating and recruiting here, there and everywhere !

 

I mean is anyone awake ? Did you all forget you too were once a timebomb-ticking teenager or what you were increasingly interested in in your young twenties ?

 

You got to be able to put yourself inside the mind of the enemy. (And yes, they are an enemy.) So let's do so.

 

These young inshallah Sharia insurgents in their own state in Irak are in a state of ecstasy because they are marrying fifteen year olds and trading / swapping packs of even younger teenagers like old Americans used to trade baseball cards in their youth !

 

And instead of cardboard-like bubble gum in the pack, nowadays there's tasty, edible condoms ! Chew on that for a bit !

 

So if a couple of heads need to roll to keep the party going, so be it. Wasn't it Machiavelli who said something like the ends justify the means ? And these young guys are most likely under a lot of pressure, so it's not all that surprising that there would be some Trial by Fire.

 

Yep, times sure have changed ... but the more they change the more they seem to stay the same.

 

Sorry, you caught Chambo rambling incoherently. Last night was a rough one.

 

Okay, where were we ? Oh yeah, declassification in Burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr-gundy !

 

Oh Gawd ! Now I see that balex is confused too ! Heaven forbid ... God have mercy on his soul.

 

This confusion could spread faster than the Islamic State ... it could spread faster than Ebola in the hot zone ... it could spread faster than warm cream cheese on a Lox-laden, LES-toasted bagel ... it could spread faster than [insert another nonsensical Chambo-esque thingie here ... and don't forgot to do so, Chambo ! ... otherwise they'll see your mind at work mid-stream], so I better hurry up and clear up everything real fast before this confusion goes viral.

 

I'm going to get right on this declassification stuff ... but first I'm going to make myself one more marvelous marg.

 



#2440 Sneakeater

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 09:44 PM

I was in Georgia in its 2005. If amphorae were in wide use at wineries I visited then Katz's is a dairy restaurant.

I fully believe that pre 1917 amphorae may have been in use.


By an amazing coincidence, from the Crush Wines email blast that I'm sure many of us received today:

In the 70s and 80s Gravner produced crisp whites in stainless steel, in the 90s he put his wines in barriques, and later he traveled to Georgia with armed guards to buy amphoras.


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#2441 Patrick

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 10:07 PM

 

That's a little unfair.

The Slovenians/Friulians admit they copied using amphorae from the Georgians, who were doing it first.

 

Weird by the weirdest Slovenian amphoric standards. Probably amplified by Leflaive + Rossignol-Trapet earlier. 

 

Right. I've yet to taste anything even remotely normal from the Georgian wines that have made it over here. 



#2442 Sneakeater

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 10:10 PM

You know, it's funny that with food posts, I find pictures actively distracting. But with a post like Chambo's above, I kinda think it has not point without pictures.
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#2443 Chambolle

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 11:00 PM

Here, I'll throw you a bone ...

 

IMG_3179_zps1s5fy6c0.jpg



#2444 Sneakeater

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 11:01 PM

Not what I meant.
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#2445 Chambolle

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 12:30 AM

 

I'm going to get right on this declassification stuff ...

 

Most likely, the main point of confusion for Sneak and balex is due to the fact that there is a lack of understanding of the Cote de Nuits-Villages AOC.

 

A layman may think that this AOC allows a winemaker to chuck grapes together from any random village(s) located in the Cote de Nuits and label a bottle as such.

 

A layman would be WRONG.

 

The Cote de Nuits-Villages AOC is specific for 5 specified villages. And none other. The five villages are Fixin and Brochon in the north, and Comblanchien, Corgoloin and Prissey to the south. (Yes, I just looked them up ... because only a total Burgundy dork would actually know them off the top of their head). Other than Fixin, these village names are not widely known because these village names are not themselves AOCs. 

 

Note - I am not going to try to cover every gory detail and scenario ... it's way too involved. I am purposely skipping stuff that is not currently relevant to the confusion above. If need be, I'll add more details. (I am not going to worry about dashes in the appellation names ... ie Cote de Nuits-Villages)

 

There is a hierarchy to Burgundy vineyards which many of us know. In descending order, it's ... Grand Cru, Premier Cru, Village wine, Regional wine (ie appellation Bourgogne ...).

 

Declassification means that wine from grapes at a higher level has been put in a bottle and labeled at a lower level (ie wine from Grand Cru grapes is labeled as a 1er Cru wine, or wine from Village grapes is label as a Regional wine). There are a number of reasons why this may be done. I can discuss a few of these reasons later. For the most part, it's all about serious winemakers wanting to maintain a certain quality level for their precious brands (ie for their wines).

 

Domaine Denis Bachelet makes, at minimum, the following reds - a Bourgogne, a Cote de Nuits Villages, two Gevrey Chambertins, Gevrey Chambertin 1er Cru and a Charmes Chambertin (a Grand Cru).

 

A Cote de Nuits Villages wine is a village level wine. It is at the same level of the hierarchy as is a Gevrey Chambertin village wine.

 

More importantly for our discussion, a Cote de Nuits Villages wine cannot have grapes from the village Gevrey Chambertin (GC) in it. I repeat - no grapes from the GC village plots, nor grapes from GC 1er cru plots, nor grapes from GC grand cru plots. Why? Because as I said above, the Cote de Nuits Villages AOC rules say that only grapes from those 5 above-listed villages are allowed.

  

... are you saying that you could never ever (even with declassification) put grapes from a primary Village into a "Villages" wine?

 

A winemaker is absolutely allowed to make a wine with grapes from both Gevrey Chambertin and grapes from the Cote de Nuits Villages AOC villages, BUT BUT BUT the wine would have to be labeled as appellation Bourgogne.

 

Want to mix grapes from Chambolle Musigny and Meursault ? No worries, my friends, just label it as appellation Bourgogne.

 
 

1. If you have a bottle which is "Gevrey-Chambertin" then it can contain Grand Cru grapes from vineyards in G-C in some circumstances,

as can generic Bourgogne Rouge --

 

2. but Cote de Nuits Villages is a specific appellation which doesn't have any grand cru vineyards in, so couldn't contain any declassified wines. Is  that the right analysis?

 

3. I am having some Leroy 2004 tonight which has some declassified wine in.

 

(ETA, but there are some Fixin 1e cru vineyards which could go into it? I realize I don't understand)

 

 

If I am correctly interpreting your questions, then ...

 

1. All true. To expound a bit, a bottle labeled Gevrey Chambertin requires grapes from that village. Lieux-dits / climats (ie plots) that are village level or 1er cru level or grand cru level are all equally welcome in the bottle. A Bourgogne rouge can have all those GC grapes in it along with pinot noir grapes from many other villages.

 

2. As described above, the Cote de Nuits Villages label enforces the rule that grapes are coming from only those 5 above-listed villages. There is no problem including grapes from Fixin 1er cru vines. I'm simplifying slightly but think of a Burgundian label as guaranteeing a minimum level of grape quality (where quality only means the level in the grand cru / 1er cru / village / regional hierarchy) within an AOC-defined geography. If you want to add higher level grapes (ie Grand Cru or 1er cru), no worries. 

 

3. Leroy's 2004 reds are mythic in the sense that she opted to dramatically declassify them ... but not the whites. Read about it here (but I'm not vouching for the accuracy of every word in the article) ... you'll find it quite interesting ...

 

https://burgundydiar...s-2004-vintage/

 

 

Why declassify ? The main reasons include ...

 

YOUNG VINES. For example, serious winemakers may opt to declassify grapes from young vines planted in grand cru plots. For a few years, these grapes may go into their village wine. Then for the next few years, these grapes may go into their 1er cru. Finally, the grapes from these vines are worthy to go into the grand cru wine. The first declassification is a two-step declass (ie from Grand Cru to village). The second declassification is a one-step declass (ie from Grand Cru to 1er cru). It's just nominclature. It's not important.

 

NOT ENOUGH GRAPES TO MAKE A WINE. A winemaker may only have a little bit of premier cru vines (maybe not even enough to make a full barrel !) and hence may opt to vinify it with his village wine to make a better village wine.

 

SERIOUS QUALITY PROBLEM WITH GRAPES OR WINEMAKING. Maybe due to terrible weather / hail. Maybe due to winemaker specific issues ie disease or issues during vinification.

 

ROCK STARS DECLASSIFY. At the tippity-top of the pyramid, declassifications occur presumably due to an obsessive focus on quality (or maybe it's an interesting marketing ploy?). Leroy, famously in 2004. DRC's Vosne Romanee 1er cru. de Vogüé has declassified Musigny pinot noir grapes into a Chambolle 1er cru. 

 

THE BEST DECLASS OF THEM ALL. Naturally, it would take place in Chambo's hometown village. de Vogüé owns chardonnay vines in the grand cru plot of Musigny. Anyone drooling yet ? And yes, de Vogüé makes a Musigny blanc. But what might happen if de Vogüé decided that the white Musigny wasn't appropriate for a grand cru wine ? Maybe declass to a 1er cru or a village wine, you think. Not going to happen in the great commune of Chambolle ! Because my village rocks and we ban whites (take that, South Africa !) and therefore the Chambolle AOC does NOT provide for a white Chambolle 1er cru nor a white Chambolle village wine. The Musigny blanc suffers a TRIPLE-DECLASS down to a simple Bourgogne blanc. Still costs a fortune though. But you all gotta admit, my hometown village is the effing balls!

 

 

 

Balex, note that Fixin is pronounced fee-SAN, not fix-SAN, nor feex-SAN. The first word in Auxey-Duresses is pronounced oh-see. The 'x' in Burgundian village names is pronounced as if the 'x' were 'ss'. Strange, unusual, but true.

 

And just in case you think I forgot, I'm still patiently waiting on you, balex ...

 

 

Everybody knows how to pronounce Vogüé in London ... rhyming with roadway.

 

I must admit that I'm highly impressed to learn that an entire city is endowed perfect diction. Just curious, how does that second syllable sound exactly ? Pronounce it for me por favor ... seriously.

 

 

Please answer my question above because I'm highly confident that neither you nor any non-Frenchie in not-so-Great Britain can pronounce it correctly :-)