391 replies to this topic

[Lex]

I have no idea how 100 million people and 27 years is relevant to the current context.

You are a very bright lad. I rarely have to spell things out for you.

Death penalty is a term of art known to more than half the country for a long time, not some neologism used by a splinter group living in the wilds of Montana. Just because some subset of the population hadn't heard about it doesn't mean that the rest of us ought to immediately clean up our politically incorrect language.

Let me put it another way.

Imagine you're sitting in a bar. (Yes, I know that's a hard thing to envision. Play along with me here.) With you is a old friend from the UK on her first visit to New York. She is in low spirits because last year her younger sister deliberately overdosed on prescription drugs. Something about a boyfriend.

The Yankee game is on TV and suddenly Michael Kay starts shouting that the Yankees are putting on the suicide squeeze. Your friend breaks into anguished sobs.

Do you send Michael Kay an email demanding that he use a more sensitive phrase or do you try to console your friend and explain it's a widely accepted baseball term that's been in use for 75 years?

[Rich]

Why is American football allowed to exist? Wait, betting, point spreads and TV replays.

Take those away from football and it will become the same, mostly ignored exhibition it was until the 60's.

[Lauren]

Speaking about Sports Terms? I just learned that Oklahoma had a basketball team.

No they don't. For those of us in Seattle, that team doesn't exist.

[Daniel]

Let me put it another way.

Imagine you're sitting in a bar. (Yes, I know that's a hard thing to envision. Play along with me here.) With you is a old friend from the UK on her first visit to New York. She is in low spirits because last year her younger sister deliberately overdosed on prescription drugs. Something about a boyfriend.
The Yankee game is on TV and suddenly Michael Kay starts shouting that the Yankees are putting on the suicide squeeze. Your friend breaks into anguished sobs.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252); ">Do you send Michael Kay an email demanding that he use a more sensitive phrase or do you try to console your friend and explain it's a widely accepted baseball term that's been in use for 75 years?

I don't think that is a good example. It would be a closer example if you asked whether or not it would be in good taste if Wilfrid starting flippantly using the term suicide for less serious terms.

[hollywood]

The "death penalty" phrase has been around since 1985 and has been invoked to punish recruiting violations, payments to athletes, and in one case, game fixing. It's just a phrase, like sudden death overtime or baseball's suicide squeeze. Nobody complains that a reference to a "blitzing linebacker" trivializes Nazi aggression.

Reading too much into it because of Penn State's inaction on multiple cases of child molestation doesn't seem to me to be a particularly useful thing to do.

Exactly.

[Sneakeater]

Can we agree that it would really be bad if some alum complained that the NCAA fucked Penn State in the ass?

[Wilfrid]

I have no idea how 100 million people and 27 years is relevant to the current context.

You are a very bright lad. I rarely have to spell things out for you.

Death penalty is a term of art known to more than half the country for a long time, not some neologism used by a splinter group living in the wilds of Montana. Just because some subset of the population hadn't heard about it doesn't mean that the rest of us ought to immediately clean up our politically incorrect language.

Let me put it another way.

Imagine you're sitting in a bar. (Yes, I know that's a hard thing to envision. Play along with me here.) With you is a old friend from the UK on her first visit to New York. She is in low spirits because last year her younger sister deliberately overdosed on prescription drugs. Something about a boyfriend.

The Yankee game is on TV and suddenly Michael Kay starts shouting that the Yankees are putting on the suicide squeeze. Your friend breaks into anguished sobs.

Do you send Michael Kay an email demanding that he use a more sensitive phrase or do you try to console your friend and explain it's a widely accepted baseball term that's been in use for 75 years?

Er, Michael Kay might not know about this. If he was sitting across the table from us, knowing the story, he would sound like a dick. (ETA: Repeating Daniel's point, really.)

I don't have any better ways to explain that the discomfort arises from hearing the phrase used in current circumstances. And it will pass. I think Daniel is absolutely right that it highlights a mind-set about college sports which proved unhelpful in the case under consideration.

[Lex]

Er, Michael Kay might not know about this. If he was sitting across the table from us, knowing the story, he would sound like a dick.

Really? Michael Kay doesn't know that thousands of people commit suicide each year (35,000 according to NIMH) and that the families of some of them might watch his broadcasts?

That's what we do in this country. We have a native American population that's been mired in poverty for generations and what do we do? We pressure the Washington Redskins to change their name.

[Wilfrid]

I think if thousands of children were being molested by football coaches every year, and everyone knew about it, there would be even greated pressure on the sport to get over itself.

[Lex]

A more extended rant.

Child abuse has long been a problem within the Catholic church but it goes way beyond that. It's underreported because of the age and and vulnerability of it's victims. In the case of Penn State we have a major institution turning a blind eye towards an abuser because it didn't want to face the bad publicity that would come with pressing charges. I guarantee you Penn State isn't the only institution guilty of this.

There needs to be a set of legal and institutional controls that will discover and punish these crimes at their earliest stages rather than have them come to light 20 years later when the list of victims reaches dozens in each case. Clearly the controls we have aren't working effectively.

And we're talking about how the use of "death penalty" is offensive?

[Rich]

I think if thousands of children were being molested by football coaches every year, and everyone knew about it, there would be even greated pressure on the sport to get over itself.

There you go again - using the "sport" word for football. Can't be done.

[Wilfrid]

"Offensive" is your gloss. It's revealing that the temporary suspension (yes, the usage is stupid too) of a football program would be compared with an execution. I'm not offended by it, but in the current context, it should make you think about whether school sports are taken a wee bit too seriously.

The notion that such reflection is bound to retard reform is groundless.

[mitchells]

I think if thousands of children were being molested by football coaches every year, and everyone knew about it, there would be even greated pressure on the sport to get over itself.

There you go again - using the "sport" word for football. Can't be done.

George Carlin on the difference between baseball and football.

[Lex]

I'm not offended by it, but in the current context, it should make you think about whether school sports are taken a wee bit too seriously.

I don't see that changing any time soon. I don't think you do either. Athletes have been idolized since the Greeks held Olympics and the Romans staged chariot races. It's not going to change, even if we form a nationwide human chain and pause for a moment of collective reflection.

What *can* change is the way we treat child abuse. I'd rather focus on that than on an empty phrase.

[hollywood]

"Offensive" is your gloss. It's revealing that the temporary suspension (yes, the usage is stupid too) of a football program would be compared with an execution. I'm not offended by it, but in the current context, it should make you think about whether school sports are taken a wee bit too seriously.

The notion that such reflection is bound to retard reform is groundless.

It's all about the Benjamins.