83 replies to this topic

[Wilfrid]

Can we erase this thread and start a new one when it opens?

[Sneakeater]

I don't have to tell you that there's a long MF tradition of extended threads containing obnoxious and necessarily off-topic discussion before a restaurant opens.

[Orik]

So which of you has been to Demi Monde?

Actually, I think you'll really get along with the chef.

[Suzanne F]

It isn't officially open yet.

According to Eater (that famous PR outlet), it was rumored that they might "start letting regular customers into the space as early as this Saturday night," meaning May 12, whatever "regular" means for a place not yet open.

[Sneakeater]

As a "regular" of some of the guys involved with this, I'm pretty sure that refers to the cocktail bar and not the dining counter.

[Orik]

Why is Demi Moore opening a restaurant and why is Suzanne F so angry with her?

[nuxvomica]

Also, if I recall correctly, Brooklyn Fare didn't open with a lot of PR.

definitely opened with PR and one of the bigger ones (same company that did Bar Blanc and Bouley). may not seem like a Michael White type of frenzy but it was a first non-restaurant dining concept of its kind, on a nondescript block not downtown or Williamsburg, also he was coming off a not-so-wildly successful Bar Blanc so the initial reception may have been cooler but it definitely opened with serious PR effort.

A quick search of eater reveals almost nothing during fall 2009 - a report or two about the opening but no eater PR love-fests, then nothing until the Michelin Guide comes out and Ramirez has the dust up over notes.

ETA: Nor does it get an article on Grub Street until January 2010. Not a big PR push unless I'm really missing something here (an NYT profile in Fall 2009 maybe?)

ETA 2: Richman in January 2010, months after opening?

Adrian, yes, you are missing the opening. It opened in late April 2009 and if you google it you will see a New York Times story and a bunch of other outlets covering the opening, some quite in advance of the opening and with a ton of images. also, there was a big story/review in the Atlantic that summer.

Google is my friend. An NYT article in April (though covering something seemingly very different - four courses/a "recipe demonstration" for $70) and an August piece in The Atlantic that's pretty glowing. But why is it so hard to find real opening PR in NYMag/eater? Does this stuff qualify as a serious PR effort? Why did it get such little traction? This doesn't look like "major opening PR effort". But maybe it is. All kind of irrelevant now.

NYMag & eater are your major outlets for restaurant news? serious question.

NY Times & NY Mag are in fierce competition for openings and both want an exclusive. From a PR POV, anything tied to retail (like BF) gets a better play in the Times and if you compare the circulation of the Times vs NY Mag, you'll see who PR ppl will give the exclusive to. Also, NY Mag does not do openings every week. (and yes, it's all very political and can be very petty. which is why you hire PR people to deal with this)

[Adrian]

NYMag & eater are your major outlets for restaurant news? serious question.

NY Times & NY Mag are in fierce competition for openings and both want an exclusive. From a PR POV, anything tied to retail (like BF) gets a better play in the Times and if you compare the circulation of the Times vs NY Mag, you'll see who PR ppl will give the exclusive to. Also, NY Mag does not do openings every week. (and yes, it's all very political and can be very petty. which is why you hire PR people to deal with this)

I use Toronto Life. I used eater and Grub Street/NYMag because (1) they were easily searchable, (2) they are constantly updating, and(3) they aggregate. Here's the NYT piece on the food:

There is also an extensive array of hot and cold prepared foods. For those Mr. Issa hired César Ramirez, a Bouley alum last seen in the kitchen of Bar Blanc in Greenwich Village. Mr. Ramirez is shown above in his domain, a 1,000-square-foot kitchen a few doors down from the store. With a team that includes Armando Yagues Nuño and Casey Laytin (left in background, with Shirwin Burrowes, the deli manager), Mr. Ramirez turns out dishes like octopus and calamari with olives; wilted spinach with Grana Padano; veal meatloaf with porcini; eggplant-mozzarella lasagna and an array of sushi. The menu changes daily.

The kitchen’s generous center island will be used for cooking-class dinner parties, accommodating about 10 people who will watch Mr. Ramirez demonstrate recipes, then dine on a four-course meal for about $70 a person. Brooklyn Fare is at 200 Schermerhorn Street (Hoyt Street), (718) 243-0050.

The original PR wasn't "this is fine dining hype" and it appears that, once the restaurant shifted to a Ko like focus, the PR didn't follow. My point was that it wasn't the PR machine that drove BF's success.

[nuxvomica]

The original PR wasn't "this is fine dining hype" and it appears that, once the restaurant shifted to a Ko like focus, the PR didn't follow. My point was that it wasn't the PR machine that drove BF's success.

i'm not arguing, just pointing out the reality of PR in this business. I'll be the first one to tell you that PR does not drive anyone's success without them having the talent to back it up* and working their asses off to make their name. PR's role is primarily to get the media's attention and drive diners to the restaurant - the rest is up to the restaurant's team.

You are correct that he made his name at BK on the strength of his food but not that he did it without PR (something to the effect was said earlier on the thread) - nobody would have ever found him there without press talking about it. Certainly, the media would have not happened on the place just by themselves or gone out there without prodding from PR - have you been there or seen the location and original setup? (pretty much in the middle of culinary nowhere with no relevant foot traffic)

"The original PR wasn't "this is fine dining hype" because that's not what he started out doing - this was an experiment, highly unusual in its format at the time and his initial deal with the market owner was not to open a Michelin-star operation. The fact it turned out the way it did is fantastic and i think serves as great inspiration to younger chefs without deep-pocketed investors, guys like Frej, etc.

*ok, maybe Todd English is the exception

[Suzanne F]

A review of the bar, from Tribeca Citizen.

[joethefoodie]

A review of the bar, from Tribeca Citizen.

While I've got nothing against early reviews , I don't know that one can accurately review a cocktail lounge after only trying the celery soda (albeit house-made) with gin long drink.

[Suzanne F]

A review of the bar, from Tribeca Citizen.

While I've got nothing against early reviews , I don't know that one can accurately review a cocktail lounge after only trying the celery soda (albeit house-made) with gin long drink.

My mistake for calling it a review. He's pretty good at covering the nabe, and he has a really cute dog -- and I'm pretty sure he doesn't mean it as a be-all, end-all review. It's just his impression from checking it out. Sorry if I gave the impression it was more.

[Sneakeater]

I tried to go here tonight for a (ha! the singular: I crack myself up) cocktail after a long and particularly annoying workday.

When I got there -- around 10:15, say -- the bar was completely full. The tables in the rest of the barroom were only sparsely populated, though. I figured that if I'm going to sit alone at a table and drink, I'd just as well do it at home, where it's free (or, rather, already paid for).

Good for them, I guess.

Looking at the obvious FiDi after-work crowd at the bar, it's hard for me to see how they're going to integrate their expensive-tasting-menu/food-counter crowd with their bar crowd. I don't know if such integration was their plan -- but if it wasn't, it's hard to see how this business plan makes sense.

These are all people I know and like running this place, and I wish them nothing but the best. But . . . we'll see.

[joethefoodie]

I tried to go here tonight for a (ha! the singular: I crack myself up) cocktail after a long and particularly annoying workday.

When I got there -- around 10:15, say -- the bar was completely full. The tables in the rest of the barroom were only sparsely populated, though. I figured that if I'm going to sit alone at a table and drink, I'd just as well do it at home, where it's free (or, rather, already paid for).

Good for them, I guess.

Looking at the obvious FiDi after-work crowd at the bar, it's hard for me to see how they're going to integrate their expensive-tasting-menu/food-counter crowd with their bar crowd. I don't know if such integration was their plan -- but if it wasn't, it's hard to see how this business plan makes sense.

These are all people I know and like running this place, and I wish them nothing but the best. But . . . we'll see.

There is definitely some incongruity there. And I tasted some of the food coming which also struck me as not integrated with the crowd.

Funny that the bar was completely full last night, while a week ago it was fairly empty. My thought is that the Old Stone Street scene got a little chilly and people start to head inside. I think they'll be raucous come inclement weather.

[Anthony Bonner]

The stone street scene? Eww