371 replies to this topic

[Wilfrid]

Until very recently, you would have said that a $150+ tasting menu is something that only a few places can get away with. The old guard has to be now wondering how high it can go.

One big difference is that you can still dine at Jean Georges for $105. Counting amuses, you'll still be getting about 7 courses, even though it's not technically a tasting menu. The food is the same quality, and you've got a lot more flexibility about what to eat.

If you want Atera at all, the no-choices tasting menu is your only option.

Yes, it has been a dramatic change. Most of the old guard offer lower entry prices (not Per Se, obviously). Brooklyn Fare, Blanca, Atera, Ko - no. (Of course, there are economic reasons for this...)

But it has to be good, as the failure of Romera shows.

If you insert Romera in the list, its real problem is highlighted. Along with Per Se, it becomes an obvious outlier (at its opening price, anyway).

[Adrian]

oakapple - you could be right. My best guess is that restaurants want to slightly "underprice" these things in order to maintain some pent up demand and be full all the time. Also, outside of Per Se, the non-tasting menu only places don't want to price the tasting to the point where everyone will select the standard option.

[oakapple]

Per Se isn't "tasting menu only" any more: they have the Salon.

[Adrian]

Per Se isn't "tasting menu only" any more: they have the Salon.

Yeah, but the Salon's not Per Se, you know? Because if I go to Jean Georges I decide whether I want the tasting menu or not. If I go to Per Se, I don't decide whether I want the Salon menu or not. The Salon's (mostly) irrelevant from a main dining room pricing perspective.

[oakapple]

Yes, it's true that if you go to the Salon, you can't have the Per Se tasting menu, and if you go to the dining room, you can't order à la carte. But I'm sure the existence of the Salon affects people's dining preferences. Alan Richman published an article recently, suggesting that the Salon is now the best way to experience Per Se. Whether he's right is irrelevant for present purposes. What matters is he thinks so, and I'll bet he's not the only one.

I would certainly disagree that the Salon pricing and the dining room pricing are unrelated.

[TaliesinNYC]

And I wonder if, despite your observation about total checks, this will give the old guard impetus to raise their prices.

ETA: Unless tables are standing empty (which I doubt), Jean-Georges looks about $15 under priced.

Until very recently, you would have said that a $150+ tasting menu is something that only a few places can get away with. The old guard has to be now wondering how high it can go.

One big difference is that you can still dine at Jean Georges for $105. Counting amuses, you'll still be getting about 7 courses, even though it's not technically a tasting menu. The food is the same quality, and you've got a lot more flexibility about what to eat.

If you want Atera at all, the no-choices tasting menu is your only option.

Hearth, 2008.

Tasting menus would run me north of $150, including wine. Of course that's what happens when you get Marco to "cook for you". Just name a number + 2 (for dessert) and let the games begin.

It's probably more common than you think.

ETA -- Suzanne or Princess can cite the cost for our GT dinner with Michael at the helm. It was probably around that price point. I don't quite recall.

[Sneakeater]

Including wine is a BIG difference.

[TaliesinNYC]

Including wine is a BIG difference.

At Hearth, we're talking a couple of glasses. Remember that hobbits can't hold liquor compared to elves, dwarves and Men.

[Sneakeater]

I was going to add "even for you", but I was afraid you'd take it the wrong way.

[Orik]

It's interesting to see how attitudes towards multi-hour meals, counter seating, no choice menus, etc. have changed despite the notion that younger diners don't know how to deal with even a three course meal.

Also, at least a couple of these places that I know well aren't making any money even at these price levels. Others I can only assume are not viable at their current price levels (Atera), a few that are smart about labor costs and portion sizes are making a killing.

Wilfrid -- isn't Brooklyn Fare $225 now?

[oakapple]

Hearth, 2008.

Tasting menus would run me north of $150, including wine. Of course that's what happens when you get Marco to "cook for you".

Something like that, which is not advertised, isn't in the same category as the restaurants we are talking about. What would Marco charge for the same menu now?

[Orik]

Hearth, 2008.

Tasting menus would run me north of $150, including wine. Of course that's what happens when you get Marco to "cook for you".

Something like that, which is not advertised, isn't in the same category as the restaurants we are talking about. What would Marco charge for the same menu now?

Back then the tasting menu for civilians was $105. Now it's $76.

[TaliesinNYC]

Hearth, 2008.

Tasting menus would run me north of $150, including wine. Of course that's what happens when you get Marco to "cook for you".

Something like that, which is not advertised, isn't in the same category as the restaurants we are talking about. What would Marco charge for the same menu now?

Well, you didn't specify that.

I shall remember to request chapter and verse the next time I comment on a thread.

[oakapple]

Back then the tasting menu for civilians was $105. Now it's $76.

Unless Marco has discovered laws of economics unknown to every other chef in town, I would guess they are not remotely close to being the same things.

[taion]

I believe the Hearth tasting has progressed from interesting to formulaic to "a bunch of courses from the carte", going down in price at each step.