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#106 mongo_jones

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 01:06 AM

counting down the days to my third visit to joe beef this june..


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current restaurant review: house of curry (sri lankan in rosemount, mn)

 

current whisky review: glen ord 28

 

current recipe: white bean curry with green peppers

 

 

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#107 Wilfrid

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 02:40 PM

My wife wants to go to Canada, but I am pretty sure she doesn't want to go to Joe Beef.   :(



#108 Sneakeater

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 06:42 AM

Tell her it's called Joe Alfalfa Sprout.


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#109 mongo_jones

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 02:09 PM

joe beet.


my annoying opinions: whisky, food and occasional cultural commentary

 

current restaurant review: house of curry (sri lankan in rosemount, mn)

 

current whisky review: glen ord 28

 

current recipe: white bean curry with green peppers

 

 

facts are meaningless. you could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
~homer simpson


 


#110 Wilfrid

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 03:39 PM

:P



#111 mongo_jones

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 03:26 PM

right now it is not looking very likely at all that i will keep my joe beef reservation in june...


my annoying opinions: whisky, food and occasional cultural commentary

 

current restaurant review: house of curry (sri lankan in rosemount, mn)

 

current whisky review: glen ord 28

 

current recipe: white bean curry with green peppers

 

 

facts are meaningless. you could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
~homer simpson


 


#112 Patrick

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 07:44 PM

I guess because of this?



#113 Sneakeater

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 08:12 PM

I thought they came out of that looking pretty good.


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#114 Sneakeater

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 08:13 PM

I haven't heard Chang apologize yet for the post-Beard van-with-stripper-pole that he had several years ago.


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#115 Adrian

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 08:24 PM

I thought they came out of that looking pretty good.

 

Same. This does not seem to be a Ken Friedman or Norm Hardy situation, but instead a situation that was broadly reflective of industry norms at the time and that they have worked hard to improve. 


I think you need to interpret what I'm saying in a reasonable way.


#116 mongo_jones

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 10:26 PM

i dunno. the guy who mcmillan acknowledges groped a server is a co-owner of one of their restaurants. mcmillan does not acknowledge or apologize for other things he's accused of except via a blanket "we now have zero tolerance for homophobia misogyny" statement. he unconvincingly denies ever having a slapped a female staffer's butt (even though she recounts the incident without rancour). and the stuff that comes out in this piece but was never mentioned in his bon appetit essay about his alcoholism makes it seem like that earlier essay was an attempt to get ahead of the story. as though everything else would be covered by his alcoholism and the redemption story he writes around it.

 

i would like to see more acknowledgment, accounting and ownership of the things that went down in the restaurant until not very long ago and fuller attempts to make amends before i am willing to not just give him a pass but also my money. you have to wonder how much more there is that may now emerge. there certainly does not seem to have been any circling of wagons around them in the industry in montreal around this--just a lot of silence.


my annoying opinions: whisky, food and occasional cultural commentary

 

current restaurant review: house of curry (sri lankan in rosemount, mn)

 

current whisky review: glen ord 28

 

current recipe: white bean curry with green peppers

 

 

facts are meaningless. you could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
~homer simpson


 


#117 Wilfrid

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 10:34 PM

I don’t think they come out of it in any way well. Goldfeld enables — or doesn’t question — the convenient linking of alcoholism and abuse. There are many drunks who don’t abuse women/employees and countless sober men who do. See the comment by Yishay: the drinking is not the problem. The article helps the chefs to conflate those issues.

The difficult question, to which I have no answer, is how we as consumers respond in a case like this. Anyone still putting money into the pockets of musicians, for example, who embodied this supposedly past culture? Bought any Stones CDs recently? And are we spending money at restaurants where this behavior went on, but it hasn’t been publicly exposed?

Mongo, despite his manifest flaws, is doubtless making a thoughtful decision. I hope we all make decisions thoughtfully.

#118 Wilfrid

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 10:34 PM

Mongo and I post in unison.

#119 Adrian

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 11:03 PM

i dunno. the guy who mcmillan acknowledges groped a server is a co-owner of one of their restaurants. mcmillan does not acknowledge or apologize for other things he's accused of except via a blanket "we now have zero tolerance for homophobia misogyny" statement. he unconvincingly denies ever having a slapped a female staffer's butt (even though she recounts the incident without rancour). and the stuff that comes out in this piece but was never mentioned in his bon appetit essay about his alcoholism makes it seem like that earlier essay was an attempt to get ahead of the story. as though everything else would be covered by his alcoholism and the redemption story he writes around it.

 

i would like to see more acknowledgment, accounting and ownership of the things that went down in the restaurant until not very long ago and fuller attempts to make amends before i am willing to not just give him a pass but also my money. you have to wonder how much more there is that may now emerge. there certainly does not seem to have been any circling of wagons around them in the industry in montreal around this--just a lot of silence.

 

I don't know about the latter. Certainly since the Norman Hardie stuff over a year ago, they have been open in the Canadian media and this is not the first time, for example, the stuff about the busser was reported last year and addressed by McMillan at the time (https://montreal.eat...isconduct-metoo). Whether they should have given the harasser equity in a restaurant I can't say and I don't know him or the circumstances, but I am reticent to say this incident is fully disqualifying, or that he could not satisfy his employers that the issue was an anomaly or one that had been remedied. 

 

There have not been the large number of incidents with the Joe Beef group that there have been with other groups, nor do you hear the same rumour and innuendo that you heard with others, instead there have been incidents, which they have been pretty forthright about in the media, that, unfortunately, are not inconsistent with what was typical across the industry at that time. McMillan and Moran have been generally forthright about these issues, the fact that their restaurant was not immune, and have spoken out in support of whistleblowers and have attempted to shift the culture of their own restaurants. 

 

Whether, of course, you find that to be a full enough attempt to make amends is your call, but I am not sure that this piece warrants floodgates speculation given what has already been reported in the media. 


I think you need to interpret what I'm saying in a reasonable way.


#120 Adrian

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 11:10 PM

I don’t think they come out of it in any way well. Goldfeld enables — or doesn’t question — the convenient linking of alcoholism and abuse. There are many drunks who don’t abuse women/employees and countless sober men who do. See the comment by Yishay: the drinking is not the problem. The article helps the chefs to conflate those issues.
 

 

yes, but it's also probably pretty difficult to find a kitchen from that era, or any era, where there was no server butt slap - either as an inappropriate locker-room style salutation or as a sexual abuse of power, or as some combination of the two - which is not an apology for the action, but i also do not think that mcmillan recognizing that his drinking lead to a bad culture and made him an inattentive manager is a conflation or an attempt to gloss over culpability.

 

these are old reports and, one would have thought based on the way these stories have gone, these reports would not have been isolated but the start of further reports (like with weinstein, or hardie, or friedman). instead, the story has been a consistent one for a year - a recognition by mcmillan and moran that the environment they created needed to change and general support for them across the industry. 


I think you need to interpret what I'm saying in a reasonable way.