144 replies to this topic

[omnivorette]

most of us and the EMP staff have to follow the law, even if we disagree with it.

Er, no we don't. Some laws are very stupid.

We are a nation of laws. Sure, some people will find some laws stupid. That doesn't change the need for a lawful society.

[Orik]

Because voting doesn't endanger the lives of other people.

(picture removed for seriously bad taste)

And military service is closely supervised and managed.

[omnivorette]

Awright awright, you understand my point.

[omnivorette]

Maybe we should raise the drinking age to 75.

[GrantK]

4. Mouthfuls does not permit members to start threads about politics or religion or to raise politics or religion as topics for discussion (including making critical comments or jokes which in the judgment of the Administrators may provoke such discussion).

Emphasis added.

[StephanieL]

I am unlocking this thread again to give those who have made posts violating guidelines a chance to delete them. Let's keep the discussion focused on the topic at hand. Thanks.

[Orik]

Awright awright, you understand my point.

As far as I can see, your two points are:

1. young people are more likely to drive recklessly.
2. the law is what it currently is.

I fully agree with both, but I can't see how they are relevant to anything.

[g.johnson]

Three points.

1) The law explicitly acknowledges that 18 years olds are sufficiently responsible to vote and join the army, neither of which are decisions that should be taken lightly. That 18 year olds are not allowed to drink is inconsistent with that. Raising the voting and enlistment ages to 21 or lowering the drinking age to 18 would remove that inconsistency.

2) The argument that X should be banned because some people misuse X is not a good basis for making laws. If it were, then alcohol, smoking, guns, sharp knives, motor vehicles, rope and hammers should be banned for all ages.

3) I don't think the legal drinking age has much to do with the propensity to abuse alcohol, except to the extent that it reflects societal attitudes. For example, binge drinking is much more common in Scotland than in England (or used to be). I think this is simply a reflection of different social attitudes, the Scots being much more tolerant of drunkenness than the English.

[Wilfrid1]

Factual question. Am I right in thinking that the drinking age in NYC used to be 18, and got raised to 21 - and if so, when? Also, does it vary at all from State to State?

[Steven Dilley]

Factual question. Am I right in thinking that the drinking age in NYC used to be 18, and got raised to 21 - and if so, when? Also, does it vary at all from State to State?

I should look this up before spewing nonsense but whatever. I'm in good company. Anyway, didn't the federal gov't threaten to cut back on financing roads and the like if states refused to raise the minimum age to 21?

[hollywood]

Factual question. Am I right in thinking that the drinking age in NYC used to be 18, and got raised to 21 - and if so, when? Also, does it vary at all from State to State?

I should look this up before spewing nonsense but whatever. I'm in good company. Anyway, didn't the federal gov't threaten to cut back on financing roads and the like if states refused to raise the minimum age to 21?

It was either that or lowering the intoxication level to .08.

[9lives]

Factual question. Am I right in thinking that the drinking age in NYC used to be 18, and got raised to 21 - and if so, when? Also, does it vary at all from State to State?

I should look this up before spewing nonsense but whatever. I'm in good company. Anyway, didn't the federal gov't threaten to cut back on financing roads and the like if states refused to raise the minimum age to 21?

you're correct..

http://en.wikipedia....rinking_Age_Act

Prior to that, states had different ages. I went to school in St Louis, MO which was a 21 state; and it was fairly common to cross the river to IL..which had an 18 year old drinking min.

UT had a law that 18-21 could drink a lower alcohol beer; 3.2% max if recall..but not full strength beer or hard liquor til 21

Edited by 9lives, 02 January 2007 - 03:56 PM.

[Wilfrid1]

Thought so.

"The United States is one of the few countries in the world with such a high drinking age. Other countries with similarly restrictive laws include the United Arab Emirates and Ukraine."

My follow-up question being whether raising the age had any measurable beneficial effect. And also, whether there is a measurable difference in bad outcomes between the States and countries with lower drinking ages. The report RP cited seems to take drinking itself as a bad outcome, which rather begs the question.

[Lex]

Factual question. Am I right in thinking that the drinking age in NYC used to be 18, and got raised to 21 - and if so, when? Also, does it vary at all from State to State?

Yes. It was 18 while I was in college and I believe it remained at that age until the early 1980s. The draft age/drinking age link remained a powerful argument against raising the drinking age. When the draft was abolished the drinking age got raised within a few years.

While New York allowed drinking at 18 New Jersey's age was 21. Each year a number of NJ teens died in car accidents after returning from drinking trips to NY and there was pressure for NY to raise it's age to 21 to keep NJ teens off the roads. Strangely, there wasn't a similar push for NJ to drop it's age to 18 so teens would have no reason to drive to NY.

There are good logical reasons to keep alcohol out of the hands of those who are likely to misuse it. There is also a broad Puritanical streak that runs right down the middle of American society. We are the nation who thought Prohibition was a good idea. It doesn't just extend to alcohol - the glimpse of Janet Jackson's boob during her Superbowl performance sent the decency wolves howling.

The combination of legitimate public safety issues and good old fashioned American Puritanism makes this a tricky issue to legislate.

[robert40]

I realize I am going in left field here and it is not relevant to the original topic, Bryan or alcohol served to minors in restaurants . But it has raised questions in my mind regarding my own youth and drinking.

I honestly have not been asked to provide an ID since the age of 14. Different time in the 70's I guess, I'm not sure. But what I do find odd and really started to notice and recall after having my own children was how many adults supplied me with alcohol as a teenager. And I'm not talking street thugs here but grown educated professionals that found it amusing that I could drink vodka like water.
That abuse at a young age caused much heart ache later in life which I hold no one to blame but myself.
But I would be lying if I said those adults held no responsibility or were accountable in some small way.

I just find it hard to believe that the majority of 18 year olds out there have the maturity and responsibility to truly understand the sneaky elusive claws that alcohol can have.