Mouthfuls: Chanterelle - Mouthfuls

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Chanterelle 30 years old in 2009

#31 User is offline   Sneakeater 

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 03:45 PM

QUOTE(Wilfrid @ Feb 3 2009, 03:34 PM) View Post
Nor did I claim that Waltuck's squab mousse wasn't good.


But you DID wonder whether, for the high prices Chanterelle charges, you wouldn't require innovation. Or maybe another possible word to insert at the end of that sentence is "currency".

Then the question becomes, if yes, why?
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#32 User is offline   oakapple 

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 03:54 PM

QUOTE(Sneakeater @ Feb 3 2009, 10:45 AM) View Post
But you DID wonder whether, for the high prices Chanterelle charges, you wouldn't require innovation. Or maybe another possible word to insert at the end of that sentence is "currency".

At a restaurant one seldom visits, I am not sure that it matters. As long as the food is great, the fact they were also serving it 10 years ago is beside the point, because one is not there often enough to exhaust its potential. Of course, if the food is NOT great, then one wouldn't have wanted it even when it was novel.
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#33 User is offline   Wilfrid1 

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 03:55 PM

QUOTE(Sneakeater @ Feb 3 2009, 10:45 AM) View Post
QUOTE(Wilfrid @ Feb 3 2009, 03:34 PM) View Post
Nor did I claim that Waltuck's squab mousse wasn't good.


But you DID wonder whether, for the high prices Chanterelle charges, you wouldn't require innovation. Or maybe another possible word to insert at the end of that sentence is "currency".

Then the question becomes, if yes, why?


And I don't have an answer for that. I have always prided myself on being unimpressed by over-fussy plates, but I now have to concede that I have been trained over a number of years in Manhattan to expect a bit more flash for my money.

Compare Pugin again: that looks like an appetizer from a $90 prix fixe, and fortunately it tastes good too.
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#34 User is offline   nuxvomica 

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 04:18 PM

food is just as trend- and fashion-driven as clothes, shoes, haircuts, etc. there is a reason lobster newberg is not on many menus these days.

Chanterelle speaks of the time it opened, it continues to serve the same food in the same way. the dining scene has evolved with new flavors, techniques, presentation, etc.

fashion is cyclical, of course, so we see dishes, ingredients and preparations come back. and, gasp, there will be time when pork belly falls out of favor too.
“Eat me,’’ it says. “Eat me and die.’’ -- Jonathan Gold
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#35 User is offline   g.johnson 

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 04:28 PM

QUOTE(Sneakeater @ Feb 3 2009, 10:33 AM) View Post
Yes, but there's no NECESSARY discrepency between "outdated" and "very best."

I think the point I made above is still salient: there's a difference between an "historical" dish like turtle soup, which is so outdated it becomes interesting, and sort of middle-outdated fare like at Chanterelle.

More precisely, there's this big yawning gap between turtle soup and The Way We Eat Now -- or, for that matter, Le Perigord and The Way We Eat Now -- such that stuff that "outdated" is almost like its own separate cuisine (sort of analogous to Red Sauce Italian).

Whereas what Chanterelle is serving is an earlier version of The Way We Eat Now. So it's arguably been superseded by current food in a way that turtle soup, or Le Perigord Classic French, hasn't.

Or to put it another way, I've had my fill of vegetable purees, I've never had turtle soup. (Actually, I have but only once.)
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#36 User is offline   Sneakeater 

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 05:00 PM

QUOTE(Wilfrid @ Feb 3 2009, 03:55 PM) View Post
QUOTE(Sneakeater @ Feb 3 2009, 10:45 AM) View Post
QUOTE(Wilfrid @ Feb 3 2009, 03:34 PM) View Post
Nor did I claim that Waltuck's squab mousse wasn't good.


But you DID wonder whether, for the high prices Chanterelle charges, you wouldn't require innovation. Or maybe another possible word to insert at the end of that sentence is "currency".

Then the question becomes, if yes, why?


And I don't have an answer for that. I have always prided myself on being unimpressed by over-fussy plates, but I now have to concede that I have been trained over a number of years in Manhattan to expect a bit more flash for my money.

Compare Pugin again: that looks like an appetizer from a $90 prix fixe, and fortunately it tastes good too.


So maybe we're talking as much or more about plating as about food preparation. Styles definitely evolve as to that, as well.

There was a discussion on eG a couple of years ago, in fact, after FG went to Chanterelle either for the first time or the first time in a long time. He said he couldn't believe that anyone would still plate like that in the 21st Century.
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#37 User is offline   Wilfrid1 

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 05:07 PM

QUOTE(nuxvomica @ Feb 3 2009, 11:18 AM) View Post
Chanterelle speaks of the time it opened, it continues to serve the same food in the same way. the dining scene has evolved with new flavors, techniques, presentation, etc.


That exactly hits the nail on the head. Probably consciously, but in any case definitively, David Waltuck decided at some point not to keep up with contemporary trends.

This also justifies my fanciful Villon quote, which one might paraphrase as "after thirty years, I'm ashamed of nothing." smile.gif
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#38 User is offline   nuxvomica 

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 08:05 PM

i wonder whether one day some MFer will be saying Chang's food's old hat and boring and i'll be insisting it's a classic laugh.gif
“Eat me,’’ it says. “Eat me and die.’’ -- Jonathan Gold
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#39 User is offline   Daisy 

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 08:16 PM

I have no problem with classics and I admit it's been a few years since my last trip to Chanterelle but it wasn't that I thought the food was old hat. It wasn't that good considering the price, tasted rather bland.
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#40 User is offline   mongo_jones 

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 08:24 PM

proves my point.

purdah nahin jab koi khuda se, bandon se purdah karna kya?
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if it takes us seven years to prepare for a madness, how long shall it take us to run naked into the marketplace?
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facts are meaningless. you could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
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maybe it wasn't the best wording.
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#41 User is offline   Daisy 

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 08:33 PM

QUOTE(mongo_jones @ Feb 3 2009, 03:24 PM) View Post
proves my point.

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Sardines aren't for sissies.---Frank Bruni
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The mistake one makes is to react to what people post rather than to what they mean.---Dr. Johnson
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#42 User is offline   nuxvomica 

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 08:41 PM

QUOTE(Daisy @ Feb 3 2009, 08:16 PM) View Post
I have no problem with classics and I admit it's been a few years since my last trip to Chanterelle but it wasn't that I thought the food was old hat. It wasn't that good considering the price, tasted rather bland.

what i meant was not so much about Chanterelle but about how the food will keep changing and evolving - imagine what it will be like 20 years from know. and Chang as elder statesman (as opposed to "iconoclast" as per NY mag)
“Eat me,’’ it says. “Eat me and die.’’ -- Jonathan Gold
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#43 User is online   Lex 

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 08:54 PM

QUOTE(nuxvomica @ Feb 3 2009, 03:05 PM) View Post
i wonder whether one day some MFer will be saying Chang's food's old hat and boring and i'll be insisting it's a classic laugh.gif

More likely they'll be saying "after 50 years I'm ashamed of nothing."

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#44 User is offline   marauder 

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 02:03 AM

After reading this thread, I think we're all in trouble. I've seen interviews with no fewer than 5 great NY/NJ chefs all say that Ma Grastronomie is their current culinary inspiration. Keller among them. What was old, shall soon be new again. lol.
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#45 User is offline   nuxvomica 

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 03:22 PM

hey, JGV is bringing Vong's original menu back. we can now eat like it's 1992
“Eat me,’’ it says. “Eat me and die.’’ -- Jonathan Gold
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