[Sneakeater]

I didn't know that ostentatious meant the same thing as phallic.

[helena]

incidentally i have two Olney books on the desk - Simple French and Provence (this one has great photos). Nothing looks or sounds outdated.

[Anthony Bonner]

incidentally i have two Olney books on the desk - Simple French and Provence (this one has great photos). Nothing looks or sounds outdated.

right but in the sense of this thread neither Olney nor David are "Cuisine" in fact they are sort of the opposite

[Sneakeater]

Jay Cheshes's TONY review of the New York outpost of Govind Armstrong's Table 8 seems pertinent here.

[Sneakeater]

right but in the sense of this thread neither Olney nor David are "Cuisine" in fact they are sort of the opposite

For the little it's worth, I think this is an extremely astute remark.

[g.johnson]

I didn't know that ostentatious meant the same thing as phallic.

Depends on the phallus.

[Rail Paul]

There was a time not long ago when La Cote Basque was a top NY restaurant, and Jean-Jacques Rachou was considered one of the best chefs in NY.

[Lex]

That's an example of food that's meant to be novel (and sophisticated). But it was always shit. However, the food in Elizabeth David's books of the same period is generally wonderful.

1. True, but at the time at least some people thought it was good. It's an obvious joke today.

2. I'll use any pretext to post a picture that awful.

[g.johnson]

That's an example of food that's meant to be novel (and sophisticated). But it was always shit. However, the food in Elizabeth David's books of the same period is generally wonderful.

1. True, but at the time at least some people thought it was good.

I wonder if anyone really did. My mother would occasionally make "exotic" things (melon with creme de menthe springs to mind) for special occasions but not even she pretended they tasted good. "A bit disappointing" was her usual reaction.

[Orik]

I think it's more to do with presentation than substance.

I don't think that's true.

For example, every neighborhood restaurant that tries hard can serve you a falling-off-the-bone soft but not overcooked piece of meat with perfectly crispy skin these days, and do so 200 times a night without fail. That is a substantial difference in cuisine (even if it were always the case that a few experts could serve you such a dish at a very high price point)

There are other, more subtle changes that are substantial:

And so you give in to the luxury of the $35 soup, a virginal concoction of leeks, potatoes and white truffles crowned by sweet little langoustines. Butternut squash soup seems even more decadent, a luscious orange mush studded with bits of duck breast and chunks of foie gras.

And this is the peak of nyc gastronomy, 1998 (not that those aren't delicious dishes, but who would serve them to you today? maybe Atelier de JR would serve a shot glass for the same price...

[balex]

It's worth noting that the examples that people are giving are from NY and London, rather than from say,
anywhere in Italy.

[Anthony Bonner]

It's worth noting that the examples that people are giving are from NY and London, rather than from say,
anywhere in Italy.

In terms of dated cuisine? I think thats sample bias more then anything else. I have some 60's French cookbooks at home and I assure you they are plenty dated.

ETA: at the risk of a disasterous derail....Italy has always been a cooking rather then cuisine country.

[helena]

It's worth noting that the examples that people are giving are from NY and London, rather than from say,
anywhere in Italy.

Silver Spoon is horrible!

[balex]

I did say Italy not France. French "cuisine", by which I guess we mean haute cuisine and the various strands of nouvelle cuisine which followed have certainly changed radically over the last 50 years.

[Lex]

That's an example of food that's meant to be novel (and sophisticated). But it was always shit. However, the food in Elizabeth David's books of the same period is generally wonderful.

1. True, but at the time at least some people thought it was good.

I wonder if anyone really did. My mother would occasionally make "exotic" things (melon with creme de menthe springs to mind) for special occasions but not even she pretended they tasted good. "A bit disappointing" was her usual reaction.

OK, the Betty Crocker recipe was a bit of a reach but here's a menu from the Copacabana night club from 1973. This was mainstream restaurant food. It's like a visit to another world.