[Wilfrid1]

There are things that seem dated but were never any good (anything in aspic except pork pies)...

Actually, that's a technique contemporary chefs should recover and use. You see it occasionally - a sea urchin dish at Robuchon. I won't proffer the pig's foot in jelly at the Ukrainian National Home at this point.

[robyn]

“I was at this restaurant. The sign said "Breakfast Anytime." So I ordered French Toast in the Renaissance.”

Steven Wright

One of my favorites. Never goes out of style . Robyn

[Wilfrid1]

Had to look up vol-au-vent too. It's defined as: "a light pastry shell filled with a ragout of meat or fish". That covers a lot of ground - including things like empanadas and samosas. Just change the name - and - voila - you are up to date.

No, vol-au-vents feature flaky puff pastry - "fly with the wind" - and creamy fillings.

I suppose they're a bit like miniature pot pies, if anything.

[splinky]

Had to look up vol-au-vent too. It's defined as: "a light pastry shell filled with a ragout of meat or fish". That covers a lot of ground - including things like empanadas and samosas. Just change the name - and - voila - you are up to date.

No, vol-au-vents feature flaky puff pastry - "fly with the wind" - and creamy fillings.

I suppose they're a bit like miniature pot pies, if anything.

my college roommate still serves those, filled with turkey tetrazzini made with cream of mushroom soup

[Wilfrid1]

Enquire about her meds.

(Or his, I know nothing about American colleges.)

ETA: I actually like vol-au-vents just fine, but mode-wise they make cheese and ham quiche look like bagel-with-everything ice cream.

[Sneakeater]

Just so you know, in American a "bagel with everything" is very different from an "everything bagel".

[robyn]

You are actually able to buy rooster?

Specialty fowl near Jacksonville Florida. You cannot be serious .

Actually though - you gave me a good idea. Maybe six months or so ago - right after the New Year - I started to order "freezer specials" from D'Artagnan (they're basically things that are reaching the end of their fresh shelf lives - so they freeze them and sell them - guess it's a byproduct of the recession - but I'd never dream of ordering this stuff fresh - too much chance of spoiling in transit). Mostly little birds - poussin - squab - etc. (which I like a lot). Some sweetbreads (have never made those at home before - will be interesting). So - next fall - I will look for a big old (frozen) bird. One of the obvious problems in terms of braising fowl - as opposed to something like beef - is the lack of fat. You can wind up with overdone/tough long before you get to flavorful.

Just an aside - Costco sells a wonderful cut of braising meat called (if I recall correctly) boneless short ribs. You can cook them up in your favorite beef braising recipe. It is also selling prime steaks (rib eyes and strip steaks - sign of the times - not enough demand in high end restaurants). Wish I had all the food (re)sources you have in NYC - but I don't. Although our first Whole Foods opened about 9 months ago (but it's about 20 miles from where I live - makes for only occasional trips). Robyn

[Sneakeater]

One of the obvious problems in terms of braising fowl - as opposed to something like beef - is the lack of fat. You can wind up with overdone/tough long before you get to flavorful.

I think that was Orik's point about Coq au Vin all along.

[yvonne johnson]

Of course Liebrant is serving vol au vents right now at Corton. Only the tops, of course... actually, only a thin ring from the case. He can't get rid of his roots that easily.

[robyn]

Along these lines - someone up thread (can't read the message now) mentioned that any chef can turn out 200 falling off the bones meat dishes with crisy outsides. So why don't they?

They absolutely do. New Yorkers who have not had such a preparation at Pamplona, Blue Hill, Ssam Bar, to name a few - raise your hand.

Of course some asadors in Spain can do the same because they have really young lamb or piglets, but that just doesn't scale.

I thought you meant you could find that kind of thing at any random place in NYC - not only at some well-regarded restaurants.

I have dined in asadores in Spain. But many years ago. When anything "asado" was great - and everything French was awful (even though Michelin tended to confer stars on the awful French food). I do regret that Blue Hill was closed for a private party the night we wanted to dine there in May. And that Ssam Bar isn't our cup of tea (I don't have auto speed dial on my phone and my husband has a bum leg - so dining on a stool isn't usually very comfortable for him).

FWIW - there is a lot of excellent "slow cook" BBQ where I live that is along the lines you describe. But it is mostly served at "diners and dives" kind of places. My absolute #1 favorite is the smoked turkey legs at the Gainesville FL Arts Festival every year in the fall - same vendor every year (can you imagine - I make a special trip to eat a turkey leg - that's how good it is). Robyn

[H. du Bois]

One of the functions of cuisine, like any other cultural product, is to articulate social differences.
As cultural trends get diffused broadly through the culture, there will be a demand for innovations so that people can express
the fact that they are, say, elite well-educated urbanites. Restaurateurs are clearly going to meet that demand.

The old trends will thus be perceived as dated, as they no longer fulfill their previous function.

I agree with Balex. As I've said elsewhere, I think that, particularly in New York, there's a highly involved semiotic system within the food world by which people measure themselves or are measured by others. You do any entertaining in this town, and you aren't just serving food - you're offering your guests a set of highly developed semes which place you somewhere or another on a scale of sophistication. There's far more than deliciousness at stake.

[Orik]

can you imagine - I make a special trip to eat a turkey leg - that's how good it is). Robyn

Some things you just don't want to imagine.

There is nothing illegal about turtle soup, btw.

[splinky]

mmm, mmm good

[Sneakeater]

I've had turtle soup right here in Brooklyn.

Maybe the legality is different if they come from the Gowanus Canal.

[splinky]

I've had turtle soup right here in Brooklyn.

Maybe the legality is different if they come from the Gowanus Canal.

the SuperFund status is probably different