175 replies to this topic

[Lex]

So, maybe I'm wrong but I'd dig deeper into those stats and see just when Wright got those #s. I'm sure some of it is in key places but I remember a week long stretch not too long ago where I watched him strike out and leave many, many Mets stranded in scoring position.

If you're going to use anecdotal evidence can I throw in those 2 two run home runs from Sunday? Or should we just stipulate that anecdotal evidence is notoriously unreliable. Even a great hitter is going to make an out 60% of the time with runners in scoring position. Most of the time *any* hitter is going to fail.

Lets have some fun. Last year A-Rod was Mr. Clutch, right? He finally learned how to hit in the big situations. Do you know what he hit with runners in scoring position last year? .265. David Wright hit .309 with RISP in 2009.

This year I'll give it to Rodriguez. He's got a .344 RISP average, far above his career RISP average of .302.

OTOH David Wright's career RISP average is .301. That extra $23 million gets you that extra .001.

ETA - By the way, do you know what Jeter, Mr. All Time Yankee Clutch Hitter, has done for his career RISP average? .309.

We remember what we want to remember.

Wright

Rodriguez

[Lex]

Translation:

ahem:loser:ahem

Juicer.

[Wilfrid]

We remember what we want to remember.

You mean RISP in important games?

[Lex]

We remember what we want to remember.

You mean RISP in important games?

If that's the case, then A-Rod has had exactly *one* hot playoff series.

I'm sorry I didn't make Steve a bet about Jeter's career RISP average. He probably would have claimed it's .390.

[Rich]

RISP is one of the most meaningless stats in the game - almost as useless as BA or ERA.

A better number would be productive AB's (including outs) from the seventh inning on in games where the run differential is three runs or less - or where a hit ties or plates the go-ahead run. Productive outs would not count in the ninth inning unless the tying run is moved into scoring position.

I'm sure Elias has something close.

[Anthony Bonner]

I was under the impression that the sabermathmagicians had show the notion of "clutchness" was worthless?

[Steve R.]

Well, the bottom line here is that Lex has the player that he likes on the team he likes... what more can I ask for, as Lex' friend?

[Rich]

Well, the bottom line here is that Lex has the player that he likes on the team he likes... what more can I ask for, as Lex' friend?

to move the runners over when necessary...

[Lex]

Well, the bottom line here is that Lex has the player that he likes on the team he likes... what more can I ask for, as Lex' friend?

One other difference. I have the numbers to back me up.

[Rich]

Well, the bottom line here is that Lex has the player that he likes on the team he likes... what more can I ask for, as Lex' friend?

One other difference. I have the numbers to back me up.

..but no rings in 24 years - just sayin'

[Lex]

Since when did this become about which team won more World Series?

It started out with Steve's sincere (although misguided) opinion that David Wright wasn't as good as his reputation. I produced numbers that said otherwise. Nobody has produced any stats that refuted mine. In fact, no one but me has produced any numbers at all.

[Rich]

The only time numbers mean anything to most players is after retirement and during salary negotiations.

The numbers matter with respect to Hall of Fame and their grandchildren. While they're playing it's about winning. Personally I have always admired the talent of David Wright, but over the last two seasons, he hasn't perfomed as well (offense and defense). It's probably because the pitchers have found a hole in his swing, thus accounting for the enormous amount of strikeouts.

Now it's up to him to adjust. If he does, by the end of his career he will accumulate Hall of Fame numbers. But somehow I think he would trade those numbers for the ring or two.

[Lex]

The only time numbers mean anything to most players is after retirement and during salary negotiations.

The numbers matter with respect to Hall of Fame and their grandchildren. While they're playing it's about winning. Personally I have always admired the talent of David Wright, but over the last two seasons, he hasn't perfomed as well (offense and defense). It's probably because the pitchers have found a hole in his swing, thus accounting for the enormous amount of strikeouts.

I'm going to go back to the numbers because everything else is anecdotal. Lets take fielding percentage.

2010 - .958
2009 - .950
2008 - .962
2007 - .954
2006 - .954
2005 - .948

Last year was sub par but not by a shocking amount. It's not like he was Brooks Robinson in the early part of his career and there has *not* been the major decline you spoke about.

Offensive decline? Lets look at RBIs.

2010 - 128 (projected)
2009 - 72
2008 - 124
2007 - 107
2006 - 116
2005 - 102

Last night he was 3 for 5 with 3 RBIs. He's hitting .293, has 50 for the year, 2nd among major league 3rd basemen, and is projected to have 128 RBIs for the full year. His current RISP average is .303 which ties in nicely to his career RISP of .301.

David Wright is an average fielder and an outstanding offensive player. He had *one* off year and his numbers this year show him to be back on track.

Rich and Steve, if you've got numbers that show Wright is overrated I'd like to see them. If not, we can move on to discussing A-Rod's hip.

[Stone]

Winning is not anecdotal.

[Rich]

The only time numbers mean anything to most players is after retirement and during salary negotiations.

The numbers matter with respect to Hall of Fame and their grandchildren. While they're playing it's about winning. Personally I have always admired the talent of David Wright, but over the last two seasons, he hasn't perfomed as well (offense and defense). It's probably because the pitchers have found a hole in his swing, thus accounting for the enormous amount of strikeouts.

I'm going to go back to the numbers because everything else is anecdotal. Lets take fielding percentage.

2010 - .958
2009 - .950
2008 - .962
2007 - .954
2006 - .954
2005 - .948

Last year was sub par but not by a shocking amount. It's not like he was Brooks Robinson in the early part of his career and there has *not* been the major decline you spoke about.

Offensive decline? Lets look at RBIs.

2010 - 128 (projected)
2009 - 72
2008 - 124
2007 - 107
2006 - 116
2005 - 102

Last night he was 3 for 5 with 3 RBIs. He's hitting .293, has 50 for the year, 2nd among major league 3rd basemen, and is projected to have 128 RBIs for the full year. His current RISP average is .303 which ties in nicely to his career RISP of .301.

David Wright is an average fielder and an outstanding offensive player. He had *one* off year and his numbers this year show him to be back on track.

Rich and Steve, if you've got numbers that show Wright is overrated I'd like to see them. If not, we can move on to discussing A-Rod's hip.

I don't think he's overrated at all. He is a Hall of Fame caliber player at this stage of his career.

He had a bad year last season and this year while his "numbers" are on track, the K's are scary and getting scarier. He also K's at very in-opportune times.

I still think he needs to make more adjustments and I'm sure he will.

As for A-Rod, I've never thought much of him as a "clutch" player. Last year was by far the best in his career in that department. I don't care what his RISP was or is. It's when a player gets those hits that matter. A guy could have a .250 RISP and be a better clutch hitter than someone with a .350 RISP.