1654 replies to this topic

[H. du Bois]

Well, the great thing about Brooklyn is that it's a far better place to live than Manhattan. And now we don't have to commute to Manhattan in order to eat food that isn't red sauce Italian or pink tablecloth Chinese as we did when I first moved here. I don't think we have a whole lot of destination dining here yet, but I can put our neighborhood restaurants up against Manhattan neighborhood restaurants without shame. Besides, now that we have unlimited Metrocards, what difference does it make where destination restaurants are located?

[robert40]

Maybe I have missed it but has anybody been to Brooklyn Fare?
http://www.gq.com/bl...-than-fare.html

[Steve R.]

Maybe I have missed it but has anybody been to Brooklyn Fare?
http://www.gq.com/bl...-than-fare.html

The seat is "virtually unattainable" as Richman's article states. However, there were some folks from CH that went and raved about it on the Outer Boroughs board. Here's a link to the thread: http://chowhound.cho...m/topics/670048

[nuxvomica]

Maybe I have missed it but has anybody been to Brooklyn Fare?
http://www.gq.com/bl...-than-fare.html

The seat is "virtually unattainable" as Richman's article states. However, there were some folks from CH that went and raved about it on the Outer Boroughs board. Here's a link to the thread: http://chowhound.cho...m/topics/670048

it's not if you are flexible and get on a wait list. it's terrific and i highly recommend it. a fantastic deal too, even after they raised the price. but you have to like a meal of numerous bite-size tastes, lots of courses but literally bites in many cases - you won;t leave hungry though. and it BYO. i'd love to do it again.

[Nathan]

I usually sign up to the proposition that while there are many good restaurants in Brooklyn, few offer dishes which can't be matched in Manhattan.

I agree with that.

So do I. Actually, I don't know anybody who doesn't.

That doesn't mean that there haven't been profound changes in the Brooklyn dining scene. When I first moved to brownstone Brooklyn in 1979 there was a total absence of quality restaurants (excluding the Italian places that Sneak mentioned.) When I returned in 1990 the situation wasn't much better.

It's different now. You can dine well in areas like Williamsburg, Carroll Gardens, and Park Slope. (OK, I'll throw in Prospect Heights to make Sneak happy.) That said, what we're really talking about are good neighborhood restaurants, not destinations. I expect more improvement as the demographics continue to change. The number of people with more money and more sophisticated tastes keeps growing. Within 10 years I expect it will reach the critical mass necessary to support true destination restaurants.

You know where Brooklyn kicks Manhattan's ass? Beer bars - the kind that sell 20 craft beers on tap.

I was wandering around Willamsburg on Friday night and stopped at Radegast, Iona, Spuyten Duyvil, and the venerable Mugs Ale House. They were in easy walking distance of each other and all were great in their own way. I could have hit 5 more quality places but time and age caught up to me. Park Slope is a distant 2nd but it still boasts Cherry Tree, the 4th Ave. Pub, Beer Table, and the outstanding Pacific Standard. Brooklyn Heights/Borum Hill has Brazen Head, Bar Great Harry, and the grandaddy of them all, the Waterfront Ale House.

We may not have any destination restaurants but when it comes to destination bars, we're loaded.

Hmm....well...maybe. I could name at least 6 or 7 bars in Manhattan with excellent beer lists (albeit at least half of them are Belgian in orientation). But they're not in walking distance of each other.

edit: I see that Wilfrid said the same thing.

[Nathan]

There are a lot of bars in Manhattan with nice beer selections (Jimmy's 43 comes to mind) but I'm talking specifically about places like Blind Tiger, dba, and the Ginger Man. There. In one sentence I've named the top tier of beer bars in Manhattan.

Your forgot The Room, The Other Room, Another Room, Valhalla. Also Resto. and that restaurant on the UES.

[Nathan]

Exactly.

ETA: I mean I love DBA - although almost more for the booze list - especially since they insist on putting american stuff in the beer engines - but the attitude they have towards bathroom cleanliness ain't gonna fly in 80% of manhattan.

And it's not a great place to watch a game. Rightly or wrongly, there's an overlap between sports fans and "craft" beer fans, and that's the overlap many of these Manhattan places are catering to. Rather than to hipsters.

Right. and you leave NY and you can discover bars with great beer lists all across this country. It's just that most of them are sports bars.

[Nathan]

I will chime in for the bars.. Besides just beer bars, there is live music everywhere.. Whether it's some jazz at a restaurant, just some guy on a guitar at the local bar, or multiple bands playing on a night, there is music everywhere in Brooklyn..

In terms of destination dining, I dont know really.. I mainly eat ethnic and cheap food out of the house.. I think I am too new to Brookyln to make any judgements. Though, so far, I like every aspect of Brooklyn better than Manhattan.

I have lived in Manhattan for 13 years or so and have not had one desire to return for anything.

well, yeah, Brooklyn has better restaurants and bars than the UWS!

[Nathan]

Although this topic is often discussed here, there isn't a separate thread for it.

As I contemplate trying to have dinnner at Brooklyn Star -- even though chances are I will have to go back to Manhattan to get home from there -- I'd like to post this comment by Wilfrid from the Brooklyn Star thread:

I usually sign up to the proposition that while there are many good restaurants in Brooklyn, few offer dishes which can't be matched in Manhattan.

I agree with that.

Maybe there are people who don't. It would be interesting to hear.

I'm assuming this is with reference to mainstream restaurants, not ethnic places (which could include American ethnic, like red-sauce Italian). And, in case it isn't covered by the foregoing limitation: as in any discussion of Brooklyn restaurants, Luger's aside.

The exciting thing about dining in Brooklyn over the past 5-8 years is not that there are places with food that cant be found & matched in Manhattan. It's that we dont have to go to Manhattan to get very good food. I really believe that the greatness of "New Brooklyn Cuisine" lies in the fact that Brooklyn is now not only the 5th or 6th largest city population wise, but can now be considered as maybe one of the top 10 or so cities in the country food wise. Manhattan might be #1, but we kick the asses of many large cities.

I completely agree with this! Also, from what I've seen at various localities around the country...many of the best new restaurants in various places around the U.S. are essentially NBC in "feel"/menus.

[Wilfrid]

I am tempted to mention that a certain consistent style of typography and layout is evident among some NBC menus I've seen online recently. Let me see if a few examples are persuasive:

Walter Foods


Marlow & Sons

Rye

Distinctly retro - same designer or just same sensibility?

[Sneakeater]

Certainly (at least) same sensibility.

I don't think there's any dispute any longer that NBC as a style exists.

[Lex]

Hmm....well...maybe. I could name at least 6 or 7 bars in Manhattan with excellent beer lists (albeit at least half of them are Belgian in orientation). But they're not in walking distance of each other.

Let me help you out with the definition of a beer bar.

What Qualifies as a Beer Bar?

I realize that while we have a wine bar thread and a thread on classic old saloons we don’t yet have a thread dedicated to celebrating bars whose prime reason for existence is to feature beers and ales from craft breweries.

To those who don’t follow this sort of thing closely there might be some confusion between a bar with a nice beer selection and a dedicated beer bar. A quick way to distinguish between the two is to look at the number of draft beers on offer. A good bar will have 6 or 7 - a beer bar will have around 20.

Having a lot of bottled beers doesn’t make you a beer bar. It doesn’t take all that much effort to maintain a large inventory of bottles – it’s a low maintenance undertaking. Having a large inventory of draft beers, on the other hand, means that the owners are willing to invest considerable energy and resources in making a wide range of fresh beers available to their customers. Draft beers are high maintenance. They need to be kept at the proper temperature, the pipes need to be kept clean, and because they’re unpasteurized, they have a limited shelf life. Any bar that offers 20 brews on draft is telling you where their heart is.

You can be a beer bar and still be a nice venue for watching a game. The large number of craft beers on tap is the signifier.

We also have to factor in that all beer bars are not created equal. The atmosphere counts for a lot. Blind Tiger has a great selection beers but on Friday night it's like a rugby scrum. No thanks.

Oh yeah ... Belgian beers don't count. Too many of them taste like fruit.

[Wilfrid]

[Nathan]

Hmm....well...maybe. I could name at least 6 or 7 bars in Manhattan with excellent beer lists (albeit at least half of them are Belgian in orientation). But they're not in walking distance of each other.

Let me help you out with the definition of a beer bar.

What Qualifies as a Beer Bar?

I realize that while we have a wine bar thread and a thread on classic old saloons we don't yet have a thread dedicated to celebrating bars whose prime reason for existence is to feature beers and ales from craft breweries.

To those who don't follow this sort of thing closely there might be some confusion between a bar with a nice beer selection and a dedicated beer bar. A quick way to distinguish between the two is to look at the number of draft beers on offer. A good bar will have 6 or 7 - a beer bar will have around 20.

Having a lot of bottled beers doesn't make you a beer bar. It doesn't take all that much effort to maintain a large inventory of bottles – it's a low maintenance undertaking. Having a large inventory of draft beers, on the other hand, means that the owners are willing to invest considerable energy and resources in making a wide range of fresh beers available to their customers. Draft beers are high maintenance. They need to be kept at the proper temperature, the pipes need to be kept clean, and because they're unpasteurized, they have a limited shelf life. Any bar that offers 20 brews on draft is telling you where their heart is.

You can be a beer bar and still be a nice venue for watching a game. The large number of craft beers on tap is the signifier.

We also have to factor in that all beer bars are not created equal. The atmosphere counts for a lot. Blind Tiger has a great selection beers but on Friday night it's like a rugby scrum. No thanks.

Oh yeah ... Belgian beers don't count. Too many of them taste like fruit.

I can assure you that The Room, Another Room, The Other Room and Valhalla all have 20+ beers on tap. (mostly Belgian, yes, but not the fruit beers (which I too loathe).) That's actually not a high bar to cross. I'd bet that there are at least 20 bars in Manhattan that have that many, probably more.

[Nathan]

now maybe you want to rule out The Room chain because they also have excellent wine by the glass lists. but I don't see how you can dock them for doing two things well.

They also do not have televisions and are actually local bars (even on the weekends! unheard of in Manhattan)