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#391 Rail Paul

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 08:30 PM

I read through a copy of Cooks Illustrated in the library this morning, and found an interesting article on making whole wheat bread. Their aim was to have a 50% or more whole wheat flour bread which rose as well as a bread flour bread.

The authors tested several variations on the usual. One that their testers favored was made with "soaked wheat", in which the whole wheat flour was soaked overnight in warm water prior to use. They found that the bread would retain a decent rise up to 60% whole wheat / 40% bread flour. The mix of warm water worked a little better than a 50% milk, 50% water soaker. The liquids were measured pre addition to the whole wheat and subtracted from the total liquid required.

They also found that the bread had the best rise when the dough was held at a temperature of 75F

“Jazz musicians just get better and better as the years go by. I think chefs are the same way. You know who you are.”

 

...Jonathan Waxman


#392 Rail Paul

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 11:20 PM

I read through a copy of Cooks Illustrated in the library this morning, and found an interesting article on making whole wheat bread. Their aim was to have a 50% or more whole wheat flour bread which rose as well as a bread flour bread.

The authors tested several variations on the usual. One that their testers favored was made with "soaked wheat", in which the whole wheat flour was soaked overnight in warm water prior to use. They found that the bread would retain a decent rise up to 60% whole wheat / 40% bread flour. The mix of warm water worked a little better than a 50% milk, 50% water soaker. The liquids were measured pre addition to the whole wheat and subtracted from the total liquid required.

They also found that the bread had the best rise when the dough was held at a temperature of 75F


I tried this with rye flour, and had a wonderful result. Soaked a cup of rye flour in a cup of warm water overnight, added them to the poolish, bread flour and yeast + warm water. Good rise, very tasty bread, fine on the second day

“Jazz musicians just get better and better as the years go by. I think chefs are the same way. You know who you are.”

 

...Jonathan Waxman


#393 Chad Ward

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 02:27 AM

I read through a copy of Cooks Illustrated in the library this morning, and found an interesting article on making whole wheat bread. Their aim was to have a 50% or more whole wheat flour bread which rose as well as a bread flour bread.

Interesting. I'm surprised they were having trouble with this. My standard sandwich loaf is 50% whole wheat. Getting it to rise properly has never been a problem. Adding nonfat dry milk powder seems to do the trick. The loaves rise just fine and don't deflate when slashed before baking. The NFD milk powder and the honey also keep the bread fresher longer, probably because they retain moisture.

Basic recipe, makes one 2-pound loaf of sandwich bread:
~2 cups/9oz AP flour (I'm partial to King Arthur)
~2 cups/9oz whole wheat flour
1/4 cup/1oz nonfat dry milk powder
1Tbsp/0.5oz kosher salt (2tsp table salt)
~1/4c/1.5oz olive oil
2Tbsp/1oz honey
2tsp/0.2oz instant yeast
11-12oz water (11oz is easier to work with and less sticky, 12oz results in better oven spring)

NOTE: I go completely by weight so cup measures are approximate. The classic Home Ec "spoon & level" method usually yields a 3.5oz cup of flour. The more common "scoop & scrape" method generally yields a 5 to 5.5oz cup of flour. In my recipes I split the difference and assume that you are getting a 4.5oz cup of flour. In practice I just put the mixer bowl on my scale and tare between ingredients, foregoing cup and spoon measurements altogether.

Allow for a 2-3 hour preliminary rise. If you have time, put the dough in the refrigerator and allow to rise overnight. It will taste better. Shape the loaf, place in an oiled loaf pan and allow to rise at least another hour or until the dome of the loaf is about an inch and a half to two inches over the rim of the pan. For me this is closer to 2 hours, especially when I let the bulk fermentation happen overnight in the refrigerator.

When it looks like it is getting close, preheat your oven to 450º. Slash the top of the loaf right down the middle and spritz with water. Steam the oven heavily with a spray bottle or a handful of ice in a cast iron pan or sheet pan on the bottom rack. Place the loaf pan on the middle rack and turn the oven down to 375º. IN MY OVEN (NB the caps) with a pizza stone in place, I steam twice, once about 30 seconds before putting the pan in the oven and again when I put the pan in. When I close the door and turn the oven down I'm just above 375º, meaning that the "heating" light goes off right as I turn the oven down past the 400º mark. The loaf takes 35 to 40 minutes to reach 195-200º internal, possibly longer if you don't have a pizza stone. If so, turn the oven down to 250º to 225º after 40 minutes so the top doesn't get overly brown and hard. Turn out onto a rack and allow to cool completely before slicing. This is some of the best sandwich and toast bread I've ever eaten. I've been tweaking the recipe for a couple of years now and am finally happy with the taste, texture and consistency I've been able to achieve. Dunno what's going on with Cook's Illustrated's bread, but this rises perfectly every time. BTW, this bread freezes well so I make two loaves at a time and double bag and freeze one.
Chad Ward
An Edge in the Kitchen
William Morrow Cookbooks
www.chadwrites.com

#394 bloviatrix

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 01:15 AM

First attempt at bread went well, so decided to make it again - a rustic rosemary and garlic loaf. Bit into a slice and realized I forgot the salt. FUCK!!! This kills me.


With Passover arriving in two weeks I'm trying to finish open bags of flour and get rid of yeast so I took another stab at the rosemary and garlic loaf. This time I made sure to add the salt. So much better tasting. And a great crust.
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#395 Abbylovi

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 08:21 PM

A friend of mine is attempting to bake bread and his efforts have resulted in a dense, hockey puck like loaf. The recipe is below, which I think is questionable to begin with. Looks like too much honey and WTF is veg oil doing there?

I'm a major novice but it seems like all WW flour is going to produce a dense loaf, yes? Should we dissect this recipe or just trash it and move on to a tried and true?


Whole Wheat Bread Recipe
Ingredients: 1 cup warm water
1 1/4 teaspoons salt
1/4 cup honey
1 packet dry yeast
1/3 cup milk
1/4 cup vegetable oil
3 1/2 cups Whole Wheat Flour
Step 1: In a large mixing bowl combine 1 cup of water ( at a temp. of 110 to 120 degrees F ) with the salt, the honey, the yeast, the oil and the milk and stir until mix.

Step 2: Mix in the flour and stir until the dough starts pull away from the bowl.

Step 3: Place the dough on a lightly flour surface and knead the dough for 6 to 10 minutes or until the dough become smooth.

Step 4: Place a small amount of oil in a large bowl and place the dough in the bowl and flip the dough to cover the dough with oil. Cover the bowl with a towel and let the dough rise for approx. 1 hour , the dough should double in size. Note: This made take longer if the room is cold.

Step 5 : Take the dough out of the bowl and place on a lightly floured surface, shape the dough into a 8 inches log and place into a lightly grease loaf pan.

Step 6 : Loosely cover the pan with lightly oil plastic wrap and let raise for 30 to 60 minutes until the dough raises approx.1 inch above the pan.

Step 7: Preheat oven to 350 degrees F place in center of oven and cook for about 40 minutes after 20 minutes loosely cover the pan with aluminum foil , test if the wheat bread is done by thumping the bottom of the bread it should sound hollow. Let bread cool on a rack then slice.
It is better to have beans and bacon in peace than cakes and ale in fear.

#396 Anthony Bonner

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 08:25 PM

A friend of mine is attempting to bake bread and his efforts have resulted in a dense, hockey puck like loaf. The recipe is below, which I think is questionable to begin with. Looks like too much honey and WTF is veg oil doing there?

I'm a major novice but it seems like all WW flour is going to produce a dense loaf, yes? Should we dissect this recipe or just trash it and move on to a tried and true?


Whole Wheat Bread Recipe
Ingredients: 1 cup warm water
1 1/4 teaspoons salt
1/4 cup honey
1 packet dry yeast
1/3 cup milk
1/4 cup vegetable oil
3 1/2 cups Whole Wheat Flour
Step 1: In a large mixing bowl combine 1 cup of water ( at a temp. of 110 to 120 degrees F ) with the salt, the honey, the yeast, the oil and the milk and stir until mix.

Step 2: Mix in the flour and stir until the dough starts pull away from the bowl.

Step 3: Place the dough on a lightly flour surface and knead the dough for 6 to 10 minutes or until the dough become smooth.

Step 4: Place a small amount of oil in a large bowl and place the dough in the bowl and flip the dough to cover the dough with oil. Cover the bowl with a towel and let the dough rise for approx. 1 hour , the dough should double in size. Note: This made take longer if the room is cold.

Step 5 : Take the dough out of the bowl and place on a lightly floured surface, shape the dough into a 8 inches log and place into a lightly grease loaf pan.

Step 6 : Loosely cover the pan with lightly oil plastic wrap and let raise for 30 to 60 minutes until the dough raises approx.1 inch above the pan.

Step 7: Preheat oven to 350 degrees F place in center of oven and cook for about 40 minutes after 20 minutes loosely cover the pan with aluminum foil , test if the wheat bread is done by thumping the bottom of the bread it should sound hollow. Let bread cool on a rack then slice.

I'm not a good enough baker to trouble shoot this. I've made the Peter Reinhard 100% WW before and that was great. Uses a soaker (I guess? its WW flour that he kneads into a dough and rests at room temp for a full day, unleavend - I guess it really gets the enyzmes going), but otherwise not so different from this recipe. Well no veg oil.
Why not mayo?

#397 splinky

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 08:35 PM

A friend of mine is attempting to bake bread and his efforts have resulted in a dense, hockey puck like loaf. The recipe is below, which I think is questionable to begin with. Looks like too much honey and WTF is veg oil doing there?

I'm a major novice but it seems like all WW flour is going to produce a dense loaf, yes? Should we dissect this recipe or just trash it and move on to a tried and true?


Whole Wheat Bread Recipe
Ingredients: 1 cup warm water
1 1/4 teaspoons salt
1/4 cup honey
1 packet dry yeast
1/3 cup milk
1/4 cup vegetable oil
3 1/2 cups Whole Wheat Flour
Step 1: In a large mixing bowl combine 1 cup of water ( at a temp. of 110 to 120 degrees F ) with the salt, the honey, the yeast, the oil and the milk and stir until mix.

Step 2: Mix in the flour and stir until the dough starts pull away from the bowl.

Step 3: Place the dough on a lightly flour surface and knead the dough for 6 to 10 minutes or until the dough become smooth.

Step 4: Place a small amount of oil in a large bowl and place the dough in the bowl and flip the dough to cover the dough with oil. Cover the bowl with a towel and let the dough rise for approx. 1 hour , the dough should double in size. Note: This made take longer if the room is cold.

Step 5 : Take the dough out of the bowl and place on a lightly floured surface, shape the dough into a 8 inches log and place into a lightly grease loaf pan.

Step 6 : Loosely cover the pan with lightly oil plastic wrap and let raise for 30 to 60 minutes until the dough raises approx.1 inch above the pan.

Step 7: Preheat oven to 350 degrees F place in center of oven and cook for about 40 minutes after 20 minutes loosely cover the pan with aluminum foil , test if the wheat bread is done by thumping the bottom of the bread it should sound hollow. Let bread cool on a rack then slice.

here's a recipe that i know works:

1 to 1 1/4 cups lukewarm water*
1/4 cup vegetable oil
1/4 cup honey, molasses, or maple syrup
3 1/2 cups King Arthur Premium 100% Whole Wheat Flour
2 1/2 teaspoons instant yeast, or 1 packet active dry yeast dissolved in 2 tablespoons of the water in the recipe
1/4 cup Baker's Special Dry Milk or nonfat dried milk
1 1/4 teaspoons salt


i use melted butter instead of oil. the big difference is the dry milk. it's possible that your friend's loaf is too wet. dry milk also helps the texture. or maybe his yeast was dead

“One thing kids like is to be tricked. For instance, I was going to take my little nephew to Disneyland, but instead I drove him to an old burned-out warehouse. 'Oh, no!', I said, 'Disneyland burned down.' He cried and cried, but I think that deep down he thought it was a pretty good joke. I started to drive over to the real Disneyland, but it was getting pretty late.”
~Jack Handey

*proud descendant of cheese eating surrender monkeys*

 


#398 Abbylovi

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 08:44 PM

Ah, thanks Anthony that Peter Reinhard recipe looks perfect.

splinky thanks anyway but there is no way that my friend is going to source dry milk!
It is better to have beans and bacon in peace than cakes and ale in fear.

#399 Anthony Bonner

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 08:46 PM

Ah, thanks Anthony that Peter Reinhard recipe looks perfect.

splinky thanks anyway but there is no way that my friend is going to source dry milk!

its good, but its still heavy. Not doorstop heavy, but heavy.
Why not mayo?

#400 splinky

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 08:48 PM

Ah, thanks Anthony that Peter Reinhard recipe looks perfect.

splinky thanks anyway but there is no way that my friend is going to source dry milk!

he doesn't live near a supermarket?

“One thing kids like is to be tricked. For instance, I was going to take my little nephew to Disneyland, but instead I drove him to an old burned-out warehouse. 'Oh, no!', I said, 'Disneyland burned down.' He cried and cried, but I think that deep down he thought it was a pretty good joke. I started to drive over to the real Disneyland, but it was getting pretty late.”
~Jack Handey

*proud descendant of cheese eating surrender monkeys*

 


#401 Anthony Bonner

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 08:52 PM


Ah, thanks Anthony that Peter Reinhard recipe looks perfect.

splinky thanks anyway but there is no way that my friend is going to source dry milk!

he doesn't live near a supermarket?

listen don't get angry just because you lost. Dry milk powder is some fancy pants invention favored by the urban elites. The rest of us salt of the earth types will make do with milk the way the lord intended it. liquid.
Why not mayo?

#402 splinky

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 08:55 PM



Ah, thanks Anthony that Peter Reinhard recipe looks perfect.

splinky thanks anyway but there is no way that my friend is going to source dry milk!

he doesn't live near a supermarket?

listen don't get angry just because you lost. Dry milk powder is some fancy pants invention favored by the urban elites. The rest of us salt of the earth types will make do with milk the way the lord intended it. liquid.

then i'll offer this from a place of humility and love: he should cut back on the water and warm the milk.
also you can get dry milk from your wic check

“One thing kids like is to be tricked. For instance, I was going to take my little nephew to Disneyland, but instead I drove him to an old burned-out warehouse. 'Oh, no!', I said, 'Disneyland burned down.' He cried and cried, but I think that deep down he thought it was a pretty good joke. I started to drive over to the real Disneyland, but it was getting pretty late.”
~Jack Handey

*proud descendant of cheese eating surrender monkeys*

 


#403 helena

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 08:01 PM

over the weekend i finally made Guy Martin's whole wheat rolls with olives and roses - they smelled wonderful :)
Posted Image

Posted Image

worked well as a toast, here served with Westmalle Dubbel and Brillat Savarin frais cheese.
Posted Image
"farangs are full of surprises. It's the erudition that impresses her, not the quality of the evidence." Bangkok 8

#404 Rail Paul

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 08:24 PM

over the weekend i finally made Guy Martin's whole wheat rolls with olives and roses - they smelled wonderful :)
Posted Image

Posted Image

worked well as a toast, here served with Westmalle Dubbel and Brillat Savarin frais cheese.
Posted Image


Your pictures are magnificent, Helena! I'm sure they tasted great.

“Jazz musicians just get better and better as the years go by. I think chefs are the same way. You know who you are.”

 

...Jonathan Waxman


#405 helena

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 08:50 PM

Thank you RP, i like the flavor but have a work to do in terms of texture - reviving the startes i got from Amy Scherber on the Women Bake Bread workshop and bake again with this starter.
"farangs are full of surprises. It's the erudition that impresses her, not the quality of the evidence." Bangkok 8