427 replies to this topic

[callalla]

Can someone please advise me on how warm the ambient temperature should be when you're trying to get a sourdough starter started?

It's winter in Sydney at the moment and our house isn't very warm - say about 16C in the day. According to the book that I was using, after a couple of days, the starter was supposed to have a wrinkled crust that should be picked off, with the 'hazlenut' sized inner bit to go forward for the next refreshment. My attempt though was only a bit wrinkled and crusty on the top. Should I just have taken the crust off and used what was underneath?

All advice much appreciated. My smugness at making lovely loaves with packet yeast is wearing off.

[Robert Schonfeld]

Can someone please advise me on how warm the ambient temperature should be when you're trying to get a sourdough starter started?

It's winter in Sydney at the moment and our house isn't very warm - say about 16C in the day. According to the book that I was using, after a couple of days, the starter was supposed to have a wrinkled crust that should be picked off, with the 'hazlenut' sized inner bit to go forward for the next refreshment. My attempt though was only a bit wrinkled and crusty on the top. Should I just have taken the crust off and used what was underneath?

Calla, average kitchen temperature should be fine. Much more problematic will be the likelihood of building a culture that will become stable. That's why most experienced sourdough bakers will tell you that it's much easier and more sensible to acquire a good quality, proven starter. Here is how to get Carl's, which is widely respected. I've been using it for more than ten years.

My smugness at making lovely loaves with packet yeast is wearing off.

Small wonder.

[callalla]

Thanks very much for the advice, I'll contact Carl's. Am looking forward to getting proficient enough at this so I don't have to be so much of a clock-watcher. If only I had watched my parents more closely... although I do remember the experiments that went wrong, such as the sourdough rolls that were quickly christened 'ammo', due to their incredible density.

[Robert Schonfeld]

This week, a levain, built over three days, replaced the wet sponge, with the objective of deeper taste and springier crumb. All else remained the same. Again, I think the result is acceptable. Phase One of The Baguette Project is at a logical stopping point. Here are photos of the cut loaf and of the cell distribution. Remember, 100% sourdough.

And thanks to Cathy for her counsel re resizing photos.

[Cathy]

Gorgeous.

How did the flavor compare to the wet sponge version?

[Robert Schonfeld]

Much better, Cathy, by virtue of the extended fermentation of successive stages of the levain.

[Lippy]

Robert, I asked above, but maybe you didn't see the question, so I'll ask it again --how long have you been baking bread and specifically, working with levain? Maybe you've said before, but I don't remember.

[banh cuon]

That is one gorgeous baguette! The crumb looks amazing, with all the air pockets.

[Robert Schonfeld]

Thanks.

Lippy, I started baking bread in 1989. The first year was comical. Mazal endured a lot. I found the One True Way of sourdough in 1990, and I started taking it seriously in 1995. There have been steady improvements in my results. I only bake once a week and I'm confined to my '80's vintage GE Magic Chef. We don't even own a mixer. I try to make a virtue of these conditions by telling myself it's a greater challenge. Baking bread this way, I mean sourdough baking, is a small thing, but it seems to embody so much of life in the process.

[Robert Schonfeld]

I just realized I may not have answered your question about levain. It's my impression that the most broadly understood meaning of levain is a dough and a resulting loaf that has been built up from a chef, which could be liquid starter, or it could be a piece of day old dough, over several "refreshments" that are typically mixed to be quite firm. One often sees an instruction to double the weight of the build three times. This is then used, in proportions ranging generally from 20 - 40% of the total, in making the final dough.

[Lippy]

Thanks. For me, bread-baking is a once in while thing although I used to do it about once a week when my son was in grade school even though he used to complain that the resulting loaf was either "too bready" or "too plain."

[Robert Schonfeld]

The sourdough baguette project is completed for now. Next, I think, will be the Vietnamese baguette, starting maybe next week, as I have a flatbread planned for this week.

So help me out, please:

-where can I look at and sample some of these breads and sandwiches in NYC?

-what kinds of fillings should I acquire? I will make maybe two loaves per week, so two different kinds of sandwich.

-if Vietnamese sauces are required, what is the best source for these?

-is there a technique to making the sandwiches themselves, such as digging out some of the crumb, etc?

From the recipes I've seen, the Vietnamese baguette is a very light yeasted loaf with a short shelf life. Make it, fill it, eat it. As they say, someone's gotta do it.

There will be temporary dispensation from the no commercial yeast rule for this project, which I don't expect will take up too many sessions. I am curious abouut the rice flour in the dough, though.

[Cathy]

Here's John Thorne's take on banh mi.

[banh cuon]

Next, I think, will be the Vietnamese baguette,

Awesome; will be anxiously awaiting the results of the vietnamese baguette project!

Most banh mi shops in nyc also sell the fillings separately, such as the liver pate, vietnamese pork roll, headcheese, and daikon/carrot slaw. Aside from that, either homemade mayo with a little added crushed garlic (or Delouis Fils brand garlic aioli in the refrigerated section at upscale foodstores tastes most like the mayo used at banh mi shops) or else butter, cucumber, cilantro, thin sliced jalapenos, and maybe some pieces of grilled pork tenderloin or chicken thighs marinated heavily in fishsauce-sugar-lime mixture, are all you need.

I usually get my vietnamese ingredients in Manhattan chinatown at a very well stocked viet grocers on the east side of the Bowery, right next to Pho Tu Do restaurant (119 Bowery, btw. Hester and Grand). I can't remember the name of the place or the exact address, but it has a fruit and vegetable vendor right out front. The refrigerated and freezer section on the left wall of the store (when facing into the store from the street) has all sorts of vietnamese cold cuts to put in your banh mi, as well as sometimes fresly milled and frozen rice flour (vastly superior over dry rice flour that has been sitting on the shelf forever). The store also has a good selection of viet herbs, fish sauce, and chili sauces.

Saigon Bakery (better bread) and Banh Mi So. 1 (wider selection of sandwich filling options) are two places in Manhattan Chinatown to sample the sandwiches and buy some ingredients.

[Robert Schonfeld]

Ok, thanks. It's on, subject to my ability to get downtown next week. Once I have an acceptable product, I'll be glad to share. Thanks again and stay tuned.