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Jung Sik Dang


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#76 Adrian

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:45 PM

I actually think JG DOES look like a generic hotel restaurant.


Nougatine yeah. Not the main dining room - the windows and view save it. I grant you that "clean modern room" gives a hotel vibe these days, whether that's a good thing or not.

I think you need to interpret what I'm saying in a reasonable way.


#77 hcbk0702

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:46 PM

I actually think JG DOES look like a generic hotel restaurant.

Can't say I agree for the main dining room.

#78 oakapple

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:51 PM

Well then, for those who think it does: which hotel?

To me, Lincoln (which is not in a hotel) committed a far worse crime. You could substitute the cuisine of any nation at Lincoln, and they wouldn't have to change a thing. (Indeed, someone familiar with the genesis of Lincoln told me that was the exact idea, inasmuch as the restaurant would have to be there for decades, long past Benno's anticipated working age.)

This place is designed very much of a piece with the cuisine it serves. You could serve Jungsik's cuisine in Lincoln's dining room (because anything could go there), but the reverse isn't true.
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#79 Sneakeater

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:59 PM

You could take that too far. I don't think Italian restaurants need to look like postcard Italy. A problem we sort of have is that French is the norm, so generic fancy is always OK for French restaurants, but other cuisines -- be they Italian or Korean or whatever -- have to have some sort of ethnic signifier.
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#80 Sneakeater

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:04 PM

I mean, what kind of cuisine is the interior of EMP "appropriate" to? I would think you could serve any kind of (expensive-ish) food there.
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#81 oakapple

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:12 PM

I mean, what kind of cuisine is the interior of EMP "appropriate" to? I would think you could serve any kind of (expensive-ish) food there.

You're right: what makes EMP's design successful is that soaring ceiling in a landmarked building. By its nature, there just can't be very many of those. An awful lot of restaurant interiors are adequately suited to purpose without being a serious attraction in their own right; indeed, probably most are.
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#82 Adrian

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:14 PM

EMP works as "grand New York dining room". Anyway, it's not just about being cuisine appropriate - these "clean, elegant, modern" rooms run a high risk if being perceived as unfashionable if not pitch perfect.*

*Perhaps this doesn't apply to Jung Sik. I don't know. But it's a general observation that tracks across a number of cities.

I think you need to interpret what I'm saying in a reasonable way.


#83 Sneakeater

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:16 PM


I mean, what kind of cuisine is the interior of EMP "appropriate" to? I would think you could serve any kind of (expensive-ish) food there.

You're right: what makes EMP's design successful is that soaring ceiling in a landmarked building. By its nature, there just can't be very many of those. An awful lot of restaurant interiors are adequately suited to purpose without being a serious attraction in their own right; indeed, probably most are.


Sure, but you may not like Lincoln's interior -- you and I are going to go to our respective graves disagreeing about that -- but it doesn't seem any less appropriate to upscale Italian than upscale anything else.

I guess I'm saying I can see how you can say you don't like it, but I don't see what makes it especially inappropriate to the food. (A minor point maybe not worth arguing about.) (Except that this is the internet, so we have to.)
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#84 Sneakeater

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:19 PM

EMP works as "grand New York dining room". Anyway, it's not just about being cuisine appropriate - these "clean, elegant, modern" rooms run a high risk if being perceived as unfashionable if not pitch perfect.*

*Perhaps this doesn't apply to Jung Sik. I don't know. But it's a general observation that tracks across a number of cities.


I see what you and Orik are saying (even if I think you guys go a bit too far).

But I don't think that's what oakapple is saying about Lincoln.
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#85 Adrian

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:26 PM

Maybe. I know I like Edwardian service if it comes naturally but I feel like I really don't want to be in places where what he describes is taking place. Sifton did give Per Se many stars after all, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Wells doing the same for JG... so we're not talking about full blown linen allergy here, just allergy to new places that try to offer this type of environment with very little success.

oak - yes, places have exemptions when they serve as museums. You don't go to the Louvre and complain that what's on display is outdated, but a new artist is measured by current standards.


Missed this. Couldn't agree with it more.

I think you need to interpret what I'm saying in a reasonable way.


#86 oakapple

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 04:10 PM

You may not like Lincoln's interior -- you and I are going to go to our respective graves disagreeing about that -- but it doesn't seem any less appropriate to upscale Italian than upscale anything else.

I guess I'm saying I can see how you can say you don't like it, but I don't see what makes it especially inappropriate to the food.

I don't really mind the space at Lincoln, nor do I think it's inappropriate to the food. I just think it was designed to be completely neutral --- like many of the hotel spaces that people (quite wrongly) complain about --- so that when Benno leaves, the next culinary concept could be totally different, without needing to redecorate.

This is as opposed to, say, Annisa, where the interior design is very much an expression of the chef. And I think Jungsik is more in this latter category, where the design expresses and enhances what the chef is trying to do; rather than Lincoln and Eleven Madison Park, which do not.


You don't go to the Louvre and complain that what's on display is outdated, but a new artist is measured by current standards.

Missed this. Couldn't agree with it more.

I would agree if it actually applied to any of the places we are talking about; but it doesn't.
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#87 Wilfrid

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 07:07 PM

Ai Fiori certainly does, but it's a Michael White place, so it gets a pass.

#88 Sneakeater

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 07:10 PM

Ai Fiori REALLY does.
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#89 oakapple

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 07:45 PM

But you know, there are people who really like dining in an "Ai Fiori"-type space, and they're not some way-out cult, nor are they all tourists or people over 70. The woman I took there twice is ten years younger than I, and lives in Hell's Kitchen. We went the second time because she so much liked the first. It's not my favorite space in New York, but you'd be surprised how many people enjoy dining in such a room.

It's not quite apposite to compare it to a twelfth-century building that literally no one would build that way today.
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#90 Wilfrid

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:18 PM

Oh, I didn't mind it, but if you're going to pick on anonymous hotel rooms...

I've had some good meals in anonymous hotel rooms over the years. Thinking of Atelier at the Ritz-Carlton when Kreutzman opened there. Plenty of others too. Is it controversial to put Pierre Gagnaire in the category?