520 replies to this topic

[joethefoodie]

Well, yours wasn't done especially well...I've had that dish 3 or 4 times, and it has been good to excellent each of those times.

I bet I paid as much as you for it.

I try to cut a place some slack - I got a piece of shoe leather as smoked meat at Mile End once, and I was prepared to accept that it was a weird aberration. But I had difficulty imagining this dish being much more exciting than it was - although yes, it could have been better.

I hope you did! My complaint is that it's not always fair to make a blanket statement about a specific dish; a few of us here think that dish is great, and have tasted great versions of it.

But then we get into a whole other set of what's fair in reviewing restaurants. And how objective can we actually be?

[cstuart]

I generally agree, cstuart (just to freak you out), but with the caveat that we can be surprised when traditional dishes, which were being phoned in, are suddenly done really well.

A few of us are always looking for a new French bistro which can amaze us in that way.

It's interesting to think of the cycle rustic Italian food went through in this City, from phoned-in to suddenly done really well back to mundane even when done well cuz there's just so much of it even of a high quality.

This brings up another point. I don't think I've ever been "excited" about Italian food no matter how well done. It's just not a cuisine where you are surprised or wowed. You know the tastes, flavor combinations, etc. and have probably tasted it before. (The caveat being that I haven't eaten at Del Posto but still)

That's not something you can say when eating at Manresa, Coi, Benu (just to bring this board west coast for 2 seconds) or the like.

[Sneakeater]

I'm sure Orik and Wilfrid will agree with you.

Oddly, I'm able to get very excited about Italian food in Italy. But I guess a whole lot of other factors come into play then.

[Orik]

I think some regional Italian cuisines aren't that well represented and that a lot of them can be done very well at fairly low price point. It's still going to be Italian food though.

I'm sort of curious about why these barely dishes are showing up as appetizers. Wouldn't they make more sense in a kaiseki rice kind of way - you eat a bunch of dishes based on high quality veggies and protein and then as much as you want of a good barley dish? (assuming it's good)

[Stone]

Yeah, with Italian we're at the point that you just assume there's near-zero probability that a new Italian place could actually be any better than the mine run of places available in almost every neighborhood.

What type of places are you referring to? Maialino/Manzo or local neighborhood places for a weeknight dinner? I don't think I've got many of those (the latter) in my neighborhood that are particularly good. I've recently been to a bunch of UES local Italian places, and they pretty much suck. And I'm a much easier grader than just about anyone here.

[Wilfrid]

I'm sort of curious about why these barely dishes are showing up as appetizers. Wouldn't they make more sense in a kaiseki rice kind of way - you eat a bunch of dishes based on high quality veggies and protein and then as much as you want of a good barley dish? (assuming it's good)

Right. Maybe the kitchen doesn't mean it to be an appetizer. After all, the menu doesn't tell you. It's in the section called "Cooked" alongside hams (bizarrely) and soup, so it looks like an appetizer. And it's cheaper than the dishes listed in "Sea and Land."

[mitchells]

I'm sort of curious about why these barely dishes are showing up as appetizers. Wouldn't they make more sense in a kaiseki rice kind of way - you eat a bunch of dishes based on high quality veggies and protein and then as much as you want of a good barley dish? (assuming it's good)

Right. Maybe the kitchen doesn't mean it to be an appetizer. After all, the menu doesn't tell you. It's in the section called "Cooked" alongside hams (bizarrely) and soup, so it looks like an appetizer. And it's cheaper than the dishes listed in "Sea and Land."

So all of you have been ordering two main dishes the whole time?

[Nathan]

Yeah, with Italian we're at the point that you just assume there's near-zero probability that a new Italian place could actually be any better than the mine run of places available in almost every neighborhood.

What type of places are you referring to? Maialino/Manzo or local neighborhood places for a weeknight dinner? I don't think I've got many of those (the latter) in my neighborhood that are particularly good. I've recently been to a bunch of UES local Italian places, and they pretty much suck. And I'm a much easier grader than just about anyone here.

I'm pretty sure they're talking about the latter. And you're right, they don't exist on the UES yet. But downtown they're ubiquitous.

[Wilfrid]

So all of you have been ordering two main dishes the whole time?

From what I'd read about Acme, and after several meals at Isa and seeing all the pictures from Frej, I didn't expect this to be the size of a main course congee.

[Stone]

You know, when I had the barley & clams, it was nothing like congee. I thought congee was more of a rice porridge. I don't recall this being soupy at all.

[Wilfrid]

Quite right. It was the overall effect: a really big bowl of barley. Just reminded me of a congee.

[StephanieL]

We recently went to a Croatian restaurant in Astoria called Veslo, and N had a big dish of barley with octopus and cuttlefish that was colored with squid ink. It looked very gray but didn't taste stodgy, and there was enough seafood to keep the dish interesting.

[Wilfrid]

I bet it didn't cost $19.

ETA: Okay $16. Fair differential.

Krapanj Style Orzotto - Sautéed octopus and calamari with barley

[Jesikka]

I'm sure Orik and Wilfrid will agree with you.

Oddly, I'm able to get very excited about Italian food in Italy. But I guess a whole lot of other factors come into play then.

Yeah, like you being drunk out of your mind.

[Jesikka]

Yeah, with Italian we're at the point that you just assume there's near-zero probability that a new Italian place could actually be any better than the mine run of places available in almost every neighborhood.

What type of places are you referring to? Maialino/Manzo or local neighborhood places for a weeknight dinner? I don't think I've got many of those (the latter) in my neighborhood that are particularly good. I've recently been to a bunch of UES local Italian places, and they pretty much suck. And I'm a much easier grader than just about anyone here.

How narrowly are you defining our neighborhood? There are certainly a number of particularly good neighborhood places in EV/WV, but this used to be something that GV was really good at. Unfortunately not true anymore. Otoh, I walk into Babbo quite frequently, which I think comes close to meeting this definition. It's really not nearly as expensive as people think. The wait for the bar is never more than 20 for 1-2 people.