321 replies to this topic

[Jesikka]

Well, this is explicitly what the article says: "Empellón Cocina, in the East Village, with no tacos and a freewheeling menu that nods to the state of Oaxaca ("It is authentically Mexican," he firmly argues)."

Apparently Stupak is not just stating that it is authentic Mexican but arguing it.

[Adrian]

Well, this is explicitly what the article says: "Empellón Cocina, in the East Village, with no tacos and a freewheeling menu that nods to the state of Oaxaca ("It is authentically Mexican," he firmly argues)."

Apparently Stupak is not just stating that it is authentic Mexican but arguing it.

He could just be failing to distinguish between "authentic" (meaning a traditional interpretation of the cuisine) and what I called "sincere" (an honest attempt to express what Mexican food is to him, ie. he's personally being authentic in what he's doing, even if the food isn't - "an authentic belief").

[Wilfrid]

this argument is a little tenuous, but is it possible that the "gesture to x" has the same credentialing ends as the claim to authenticity?

Perhaps, but all I'm really saying is that a reported comment and an out-of-context phrase (what was the question?) are unpromising material for close textual analysis.

[Orik]

"sincere" may not be the right word, perhaps "ironic" or "tongue-in-cheek". Think of the difference between Torissi (Italian, but self-aware, playful, joking, but still, in some ways traditional) vs. any number of other Italian places (even those that are trying to innovate or modernize).

Torissi is Italian method with random nyc ingredients, Stupak is pastry chef method with Mexican (whatever that means) ingredients, that's part of the problem.

Another part has to do with a replicating (or at least nodding to) a way of eating.

There's a place in Playa del Carmen, Tulum, and I think Cancun too now that is a hipster take on the local fish restaurants. It's very recognizable as one of them, much better, and does such cute things as serve you your tacos, priced at 4x the going rate (because they're made from good stuff) on a plastic plate wrapped in a plastic bag. They're much smarter than Stupak (based on my one meal at his place, mind you) and they're trying to cover a more reasonable patch of culinary ground by limiting themselves to this one sub-genre of Yucatec restaurants.

[Jesikka]

I don't know what "authentic" means in this context. This food isn't traditional. But would I be shocked to be served it at a restaurant in Oaxaca like, say, La Biznaga? No. It's more like Mexican food I've had in Mexico than it is like anything else.

It's certainly not watered down.

I just don't think "authentic" is a word that brings much to the table here.

to me the word "authentic" is credentialing the food. his rhetorical position is bound up in an interesting, probably "bad," but no way atypical politics. at this point it's almost not even worth pointing out or interesting to talk about, because people tend to have pretty fixed notions about this particular set of cultural politics, and when you try to explain to them why "x says y is authentic" is at best complex and at worst violent, it just doesn't go anywhere. so it's either preaching to the choir (boring) or shouting at a wall (boring). [i have a professor now who's fond of saying, 'this is not a critique of capitalism, only a description of how capitalism works and what it does.' I can't tell whether he's being facetious or not.] so for me maybe a more interesting way to think about it is, why does he need to credential the food in a certain way? following that line of thought takes you to an ugly place regarding new york city's food culture.

eta: should have kept my mouth shut but couldn't help it. mouthfuls has finally jaded me towards the activist potential of postcolonial/decolonizing politics. congratulations, all.

You're making me nostalgic for a time when I had hours and hours in my day to read Judith Butler and Edward Said. It's hard to believe that there was once a time where I thought of Salman Rushdie as someone other than Padma's ex husband. Thanks, I'll go make some more powerpoint presentations now. By the way, did you know that it's considered disrespectful to put actual content in email messages these days? I'm told that the subject line is enough, with <EOM> to signal that nobody need bother opening your email.

[Wilfrid]

Apparently Stupak is not just stating that it is authentic Mexican but arguing it.

It's a blog. That what's the blogger says.

Stupak probably said the wallpaper was authentically Mexican.

[Jesikka]

Well, this is explicitly what the article says: "Empellón Cocina, in the East Village, with no tacos and a freewheeling menu that nods to the state of Oaxaca ("It is authentically Mexican," he firmly argues)."

Apparently Stupak is not just stating that it is authentic Mexican but arguing it.

He could just be failing to distinguish between "authentic" (meaning a traditional interpretation of the cuisine) and what I called "sincere" (an honest attempt to express what Mexican food is to him, ie. he's personally being authentic in what he's doing, even if the food isn't - "an authentic belief").

Things are really going poorly if he feels the need to argue that he's sincere. Perhaps that's the point. Or perhaps the writer is an idiot. Both, even.

[irnscrabblechf52]

<EOM> to signal that nobody need bother opening your email.

really? that's bizarre

[Adrian]

Orik - yes. EOM.
Jesikka - hasn't he been on the defensive about that since day one?

[Wilfrid]

This is really quite amazing. The comment isn't even in the interview.

"It's authentic," he screamed.

What is?

"I don't know, but dammit....!"

[Orik]

Apparently Stupak is not just stating that it is authentic Mexican but arguing it.

It's a blog. That what's the blogger says.

Stupak probably said the wallpaper was authentically Mexican.

Ok, ok, but it's a fun topic to discuss.

Let's say he didn't claim the food is authentic - in previous interviews he's used a set of the aforementioned vile arguments (his wife is somewhat Mexican, he's been to Mexico, he read Mexican cookbooks, he likes Chihuahuas (ok, I made that one up))

[Sneakeater]

The tete de Chihuahua sope was like the best thing I've eaten this year.

[Jesikka]

Apparently Stupak is not just stating that it is authentic Mexican but arguing it.

It's a blog. That what's the blogger says.

Stupak probably said the wallpaper was authentically Mexican.

Ok, ok, but it's a fun topic to discuss.

Let's say he didn't claim the food is authentic - in previous interviews he's used a set of the aforementioned vile arguments (his wife is somewhat Mexican, he's been to Mexico, he read Mexican cookbooks, he likes Chihuahuas (ok, I made that one up))

Authentic Mexican glass was used on the strange window that lists all the ingredients. $4/ft. Authentic Mexican tequila shots for all of you! With an authentic worm!

[Jesikka]

Apparently Stupak is not just stating that it is authentic Mexican but arguing it.

It's a blog. That what's the blogger says.

Stupak probably said the wallpaper was authentically Mexican.

Edited to say: nevermind, we all agree anyway.

[Wilfrid]

Two stars from Pete Wells, I hear, and Ryan Sutton's review due up later tonight.

The food I've had there has been quite arguably three star, but given the general feel of the place, two stars must be right.

ETA: Here's the review.