49 replies to this topic

[Wilfrid]

Discussion elsewhere prompts me to mention some of the music which young people who would ultimately accept or adopt - one way or another - "punk" were listening to before "punk" came along. In the wilderness years, in other words, what were people listening to as an alternative to mainstream stadium rock?

We have different timelines, of course, for the States and the UK here (youse guys were a couple of years ahead of us at least), but I'd be interested in hearing from both sides of the Atlantic.

[Wilfrid]

Obvious stuff first:

The Velvet Underground.
The Stooges, especially an import of Metallic KO.
The MC5, but Back in the USA, which sounded like high energy pub rock, rather than Kick Out The Jams, which then sounded like bad heavy metal.

[Wilfrid]

"Roadrunner" by Jonathan Richman - the Berserkley single version.

Flaming Groovies: "Shake Some Action," the Dave Edmunds-produced single, and the a double album re-release of Teenage Head and Flamingo.

[Sneakeater]

We were both ahead of you and behind you.

A lot of what was "pop" in the U.K. in the early '70s was "alternative" in the U.S.

So here in the U.S., the list would include, in addition to what you listed (BY THE WAY YOU LEFT OUT THE DOLLS), British acts that, back in Britain, were sheer mainstream pop:

T. Rex
Slade
10CC

Also, don't forget (I insist) ABBA.

[Sneakeater]

(BY THE WAY YOU LEFT OUT THE DOLLS)

And not only that. As you may or may not know, there was a whole New York City "glitter-rock"/power pop scene that came up in the wake of the Dolls, which was almost wholly undocumented. The New York punk scene was a direct outgrowth of this -- really, just a continuation.

Among the leading groups were

The Planets
The Fast
The Marbles
Milk & Cookies

And of course Wayne County.

[mongo_jones]

don't forget grand funk railroad!

[Sneakeater]

I once asked Mark Farner what he thought of punk music.

"Do you know what the word 'punk' originally meant?" he replied. "Someone who got butt-fucked in jail."

[Sneakeater]

Some more:

Hackamore Brick
All Flaming Groovies, from their first, Sneakers, on
The United States of America (marginal)

[Wilfrid]

I hadn't made a complete list. The Dolls, yes, maybe less than you think, though, because there was suspicion of the long-hair, Stones-ish, rockist aspect of their work. (Perceptions change, of course.)

The NY glitter-pop scene shared downtown space with the likes of Television, didn't it? I remember The Fast. Also, The Shirts? And Blondie came out of this, right, as in The Stilettos/Snooky and Tish?

[Sneakeater]

Right right.

Television came up in the tail end of that scene. They opened for the Dolls in the Dolls' Malcom McLaren-era shows in 1975.

[Wilfrid]

Not everyone liked the handle "punk" because we were certainly aware of the connotations.

It's crucial, of course, that in pre-Internet times, you couldn't assume that fans in different countries would even have access to the same records. Teenage Head/Flamingo were re-released as a double album set in the UK around this time, but Sneakers wasn't available. I eventually got it on a cassette which someone had taped for me.

The Dolls albums were eventually re-released as a double set too, but I'm not sure that happened before 76/77. We were really scrabbling to find stuff.

A French label was putting out odd bits of Iggy (Skydog Records?).

[Wilfrid]

Wikipedia on Metallic KO: "it was considered a "semi-official" bootleg, when released on the Skydog label in 1976."

It wasn't like you could just walk into your local record store and buy Raw Power.

[Wilfrid]

The downtown power pop scene, I just remembered The Tuff Darts too. Some of these acts found their way to the UK on a live at CBGBs compilation.

[Sneakeater]

The Dolls, yes, maybe less than you think, though, because there was suspicion of the long-hair, Stones-ish, rockist aspect of their work. (Perceptions change, of course.)

Surely that's right, but we're talking about a historic progression, where many tributaries unite to form a river.

You could say the same thing about the pub-rock guys that contributed to British punk.

[Sneakeater]

The downtown power pop scene, I just remembered The Tuff Darts too. Some of these acts found their way to the UK on a live at CBGBs compilation.

Yes, exactly. But that album was kind of the very tail end of that scene, after punk had already succeeded it.