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#76 TaliesinNYC

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 05:54 PM

*popcorn*

#77 Suzanne F

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 01:41 AM

Adrian, I don't know what your problem is, or why you are behaving like such an idiot who refuses to believe what you are told, but I have lost all patience with you. I have too many deadlines to spend more time explaining myself to you (when there is no need anyway).

I don't want to seem obsessed with this, but . . . -- Sneakeater, August 13, 2014

 

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#78 Sneakeater

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 01:44 AM

I think Adrian's problem is this (and it's not focused on Suzanne):

We all complain that New York is too conservative and that there's little that's new and interesting being tried here.

When someone tries it, however, they meet with immediate derision here from people who haven't even tried what they're doing. (I'm as guilty of this as anybody else.)

Since we're some of the people who help establish the New York culinary culture (as depressing as that observation is), we're at least in part at fault for the very circumstance we decry.
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#79 Adrian

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 02:51 AM

Right Sneak, it's not focused on Suzanne, it's focused on the subtle dismissal of Atera by otherwise smart and analytical people on this board because they 1) didn't like the old iteration or 2) don't like the landlords or 3) resent the restaurant's PR or 4) I have no idea.

Regardless, I don't think anything I said was particularly personal or inflammatory (if it was, I'm sorry - nothing here should be taken personally [at least nothing I say], it's a food message board, too marginal to get worked up over]). Suzanne, I'm not playing obtuse and I'm not refusing to believe what you say here, I'm pressing you on the implications of what you said. For example, you said "The gullibility of people who think that dining on twigs and false rocks is the height of sophistication". Now, insofar as food can ever be the height of sophistication (which it can't be), I would make the wager that Mugaritz, a false rocks place, is, by some measures, as sophisticated as these places can get. So am I supposed to take from your comment? Are the people that praise Mugaritz gullible? The people that enjoy the false rock dish? That you, personally, are uninterested in that kind of food? Or, you said you "eat with your eyes" (or other people SLRs), so I'm going to press you on that, especially when the conclusion you seem to reach from that is one that object to. What would the reaction in these parts be if I posted on the New York bored that Ducasse's food looked like staid French food that I have no interest in eating? I would criticize me!

Again, feel free to ignore the discussion - it's not personal, again, at all - just please keep me in your sig line!

I think you need to interpret what I'm saying in a reasonable way.


#80 Orik

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 05:02 AM

It's a systemic issue.

Do you believe the people who brought us Compose - a composite of then slightly outdated trends (counter seating, forced tasting, greatest hits of khymos.org) and now bringing us Atera, a word in Hebrew (not) or maybe Basque that is all Mugaritzy like but also, just in case, foragy, do you believe these people are going to provide you with a good experience? It's much more likely they just want to take your money.

I think that's what Suzanne is saying.

Let me put this out there - and I'm not saying Atera isn't great, it may very well be amazing, just why it's reasonable to be more than slightly skeptical about it:

Dwight's also the founder of

DoubleClick

, Gilt Grouple,

10gen

, and a bunch of other companies. So he's no stranger to startups.


Double freakin' Click.


I never said that

#81 Anthony Bonner

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:34 AM

eh that's a pretty loathsome track record but a there has been more than one example of someone who made their money in pretty vulgar ways ending up using that money to do some pretty cool things. I hope he didn't invest in Atera hoping to get rich. Actually I sort of do, as it proves a lot of what I've always thought about VC/Startup guys.

I have to be honest with you that my reaction would be worse to a place being opened up by someone who does what you do for a living - or what I do for a living to be totally fair.

Why doesn't at least one of us give it a shot before we mock it.
Why not mayo?

#82 Adrian

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 01:00 PM

Thank you AB. What does it matter that these guys founded DoubleClick? Lots of restaurants have questionable owners and maybe we can be skeptical of their true commitment to their project, but I'm not sure why that implies that we can make any sort of judgment on Atera as a restaurant (again, whether it was dumb luck or not, they did get a pretty well regarded chef this time, if one from the provinces - and we spend how much time complaining that young talented guys can't get bankrolled?). We seem doomed to judge this place based on where the money comes from and photos of the food (and you wonder why some chefs object to food photos).

I think you need to interpret what I'm saying in a reasonable way.


#83 Sneakeater

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 02:56 PM

Think of Acme. (Of course, Suzanne and Orik might not like Acme much, either.)
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#84 Sneakeater

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 03:02 PM

Do you believe the people who brought us Compose - a composite of then slightly outdated trends (counter seating, forced tasting, greatest hits of khymos.org) and now bringing us Atera, a word in Hebrew (not) or maybe Basque that is all Mugaritzy like but also, just in case, foragy, do you believe these people are going to provide you with a good experience? It's much more likely they just want to take your money.


But Suzanne will tell me that ANY claim that ANYONE is opening a restaurant because they believe in what they're doing and think it's good is naive, and that business reasons are the ONLY reason ANYBODY EVER opens a restaurant.

In that case, it becomes perfectly random, and the previous owners of Compose (or the guys who own Acme) are just as likely to hit something good as the owners of Roberta's.
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#85 Orik

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 04:04 PM

I don't share her view (eta: in the general case, I was talking about this restaurant in particular). I think many people open restaurants because they want to create a cultural artifact or because they think they have some culinary or social angle that isn't well serviced... of course it's nice to make money too, and of course you need a business manager who keeps an eye on that, but if they were just looking to make money then there are about 18 million better things to do.

Adrian - again, I am not at all resistant to the idea that Atera could be excellent, but I just won't believe a word that a founder of DoubleClick and Gilt Groupe is saying. I'm not cynical about the cuisine, I'm cynical about the PR. Given that, and given the empirical evidence about new nyc restaurants, I'd rather wait before I go (I don't think this is one of those cases where there's a benefit to catching the restaurant in its formative stages). Also note that DoubleClick and Gilt Groupe aren't just sort of lame, but they're specifically companies designed to discover information about you to sell you stuff (in the case of Gilt, specifically to sell you dbag stuff at a dbag discount, which is very similar to the old IBM discount).
I never said that

#86 Adrian

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 04:08 PM

Orik, where else can I get Happy Socks at that price? I have no objection to holding out on Atera until more press comes in.

I think you need to interpret what I'm saying in a reasonable way.


#87 AaronS

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 05:36 PM

the current guy's resume is a lot better than the guy they started with.

I'm in the process of talking my wife into going so I should be able to report soon.

also, it's hard to think it wouldn't be better (or at least cheaper) if it was in ridgewood or something.

#88 Anthony Bonner

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 08:39 PM

Ressy's only taken between 10 and 3. Opentabled out 'til May. "Real restaurant" or no?
Why not mayo?

#89 Wilfrid

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 09:26 PM

Very small restaurant. Seriously, it's smaller than Ko, isn't it? Bigger than Brooklyn Fare?

#90 oakapple

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:31 PM

I'm very much in the camp that we ought to at least taste the food before condemning it.

On the other hand, you cannot deny that the whole purpose of publicity photos, is so that people will say: "Wow! That looks good! I must go!"

If people are meant to be attracted by publicity shots, then one must acknowledge that some will be repulsed by them.
Marc Shepherd
Editor, New York Journal