40 replies to this topic

[Sneakeater]

It seems like we should be discussing this.

Not that there's anything interesting about it.

[Wilfrid]

Chef's Table at Brooklyn Fare
Le Bernardin
Corton
Eleven Madison Park
Del Posto
Jean-Georges
Daniel
Salon at Per Se
Bouley
15 East

We can at least compare it with the OA top 10.

4. Per Se, New York, NY 101.19
6. Masa, New York, NY 100.76
11. Jean Georges, New York, NY 99.06
12. Sushi Yasuda, New York, NY 98.95
15. Kuruma Zushi, New York, NY 98.33
15. Eleven Madison Park, New York, NY 98.33
17. Le Bernardin, New York, NY 98.28
19. Corton, New York, NY 97.97
22. Momofuku Ko New York, NY 97.11
28. Soto, New York, NY 96.44

Some favored by Richman are much further down the OA list.

30. Bouley, New York, NY 96.31
38. Daniel, New York, NY 95.75
52. Brooklyn Fare, Brooklyn, NY 94.79

[Wilfrid]

Four in common: Le Bernardin, Corton, Eleven Madison Park and Jean-Georges. I think the main lesson of the comparison is that OA is much more interested in sushi. I don't know what else it teaches us.

If you like Japanese food as much as western food, the OA list is more useful; if not, Richman's list is.

It seems perverse of Richman to omit Per Se, but in his remarks he clearly considers it and rejects it, on the basis of the overall experience and not the food.

[Rich]

Daniel, Del Posto - really???????????????

[Wilfrid]

Del Posto I find more plausible than Daniel.

[Wilfrid]

Neither Del Posto nor Babbo occur in the OA best 100 list. This might well mean that they're not in the best 100; it might also mean that the self-selected cohort of OA voters don't tend to eat at Batali restaurants.

I am not especially a booster for Batali, but it seems obvious to me that Del Posto is better than a number of restaurants on that list.

[oakapple]

Daniel got four stars from Bruni, who (I think we can safely say) is no great fan of that style of dining. So putting it in the top ten does not seem like a ridiculous choice.

[Sneakeater]

I was glad he explained why it's not as good as it used to be. I completely concur with that. I think the style at Daniel started changing when they moved and opened Cafe Boulud, which was originally pitched as being something like a bouchon (thus supposedly taking care of the earthier side of things). Well, THAT didn't last long.

Of course, Daniel also isn't as good as it used to be because it's MUCH MUCH bigger.

[Wilfrid]

Correct, and that's why Bruni's re-review is irrelevant. Daniel obviously practices triage, and obviously recognized Bruni. I have no doubt Daniel can send out a Top 10 dinner to people it knows. What the tourists scattered at the distant corner tables get is something else - not bad, but not nearly as good.

The sheer size means the divergence in dining experience has the potential to be much greater than at other top New York restaurants.

[oakapple]

Correct, and that's why Bruni's re-review is irrelevant.

The reason it's relevant is because Richman is just as recognizable, if not more so.

[Sneakeater]

A friend was recently taken there by her chef boyfriend. It was her first visit. She raved about the food. I remarked, "Of course, you got the VIP food." She said, "What are you talking about? We didn't get anything off-menu. We got the same food as everybody else." I replied that just because you get the same dishes there as everybody else, it doesn't mean you're getting the same food. Of course her chef boyfriend concurred.

[Wilfrid]

Correct, and that's why Bruni's re-review is irrelevant.

The reason it's relevant is because Richman is just as recognizable, if not more so.

Er...he included it in his Top 10.

I am not recognized at Daniel, and it wouldn't get anywhere near my Top 10.

Daniel is in many ways the ideal New York restaurant. The staff can't do enough for you.

Sure, if you're Alan Richman or Frank Bruni. If you're not, you can have difficulty getting two wine-lists for the table or making simple changes to the tasting menu.

[Adrian]

Neither Del Posto nor Babbo occur in the OA best 100 list. This might well mean that they're not in the best 100; it might also mean that the self-selected cohort of OA voters don't tend to eat at Batali restaurants.

Bingo. This applies to BF as well. The OA list relies highly on how many of the highly rated restaurants each participant has eaten at. I wager BF gets punished because it's so hard to get into.

[oakapple]

There are enough people speaking highly enough of Daniel to make it a sensible choice. It isn't wrong for this list, just because you or I personally wouldn't have chosen it. It's not an objectively indefensible choice, the way (for example) "One if By Land, Two if By Sea" would be.

[tighe]

Neither Del Posto nor Babbo occur in the OA best 100 list. This might well mean that they're not in the best 100; it might also mean that the self-selected cohort of OA voters don't tend to eat at Batali restaurants.

I am not especially a booster for Batali, but it seems obvious to me that Del Posto is better than a number of restaurants on that list.

Oh come now...you've heard the OA editor hold forth on the culinary merit of Italian food many times....