1228 replies to this topic

[Wilfrid1]

Memo to diary. Find time to be shocked at the possibility that Bonds and Giambi have used steroids. Afternoon of February 7 looks good.

[Robert Schonfeld]

What's amazing to me is how many people seem not to care. Sure, it's not a surprise that guys who bulk up like that have used drugs. But isn't this cheating? Shouldn't we care that these guys, our recreational heroes, are cheats?

[omnivorette]

As opposed to everyone else who's not a cheat?

[hollywood]

When you consider how prevalent the use of the drugs is it kinda makes Pete Rose's gambling look like small stuff. Not that he's right, but he did get punished. So far, they haven't been. Where's Judge Landis when baseball needs him?

[mitchells]

When you consider how prevalent the use of the drugs is it kinda makes Pete Rose's gambling look like small stuff. Not that he's right, but he did get punished. So far, they haven't been. Where's Judge Landis when baseball needs him?

Excellent point but the fact is that drug use has never been high on MLB radar screen because it was always believed to not have an impact on the integrity of each game, unlike gambling. Clearly, steroid use does have such an effect on the integrity of the game so these guys should get banished.

Another difference is that Rose was booted based on things done while a manager and not while as a member of the MLB Players Association which may be the most powerful union in the US. You can be sure that no matter what happens, the PA will appeal.

[Wilfrid1]

I find it hard to get angry with the guys because I have the strong impression (not based on evidence, so I am open to being told I'm wrong) that it's been an everyday part of the game for a long time, and everyone has been turning a blind eye to it. I am not going to single out Giambi as a bad guy unless I'm convinced there aren't bad guys all over the place. Sammy Sosa? Boy, hasn't he trimmed down recently? Mark McGwire? Am I just too cynical?

[g.johnson]

It's also increasingly apparent that every professional cyclist from Armstrong down uses dope.

I too find it hard to get worked up about it. What’s the difference between training at altitude to increase natural erythropoietin levels and hence red blood cell count and injecting it to achieve the same thing?

[mitchells]

Because it is cheating?

[g.johnson]

Sure, but should it be? If everyone is doing it, what difference does it make?

[hollywood]

It's also increasingly apparent that every professional cyclist from Armstrong down uses dope.

Are you sure about Armstrong? Do you think he gets a free pass because of the cancer?

[hollywood]

Sure, but should it be? If everyone is doing it, what difference does it make?

I don't know about you, but my momma never bought it when I tried the all the other kids are doing it gambit.

[mitchells]

Sure, but should it be? If everyone is doing it, what difference does it make?

But what about players that choose not to do it? Aren't they at a disadvantage?

[Wilfrid1]

You can be purist about "cheating", of course. If it's against the rules, it's cheating. But in many sports there are practices which, while against the rules, go on all the time without anyone getting especially bothered, as long as it's not too obvious. Or, if you prefer, take jaywalking. I understand it's against the law in New York City. If you catch Jason Giambi jaywalking, give him hell.

[g.johnson]

It's also increasingly apparent that every professional cyclist from Armstrong down uses dope.

Are you sure about Armstrong? Do you think he gets a free pass because of the cancer?

One of his advisors is Michele Ferrari who is currently on trial for supplying drugs to other cyclists. He has also tested positive for steroids though he claimed it was due to the use of a legal skin cream, an excuse that the relevant bodies accepted.

[g.johnson]

Sure, but should it be? If everyone is doing it, what difference does it make?

But what about players that choose not to do it? Aren't they at a disadvantage?

Yes, but that's their choice.