371 replies to this topic

[Adrian]

But Adrian, have you considered the possibility that your "trouble" with the chairs may not represent a universal opinion of Freeman's furniture. Other people may positively desire what you regard as "trouble."

Yes, I acknowledged as much. Though I found Freeman's chairs uncomfortable, and the crowd and food wasn't exactly to my tastes, the patrons affirmatively desired dining in a room that maintained that kind of aesthetic and the chairs, much to my chagrin, certainly helped the space look appealing to that crowd. In fact, they were comfortable there. I assume that's why Somer doesn't plush-up the chairs. After all, he could certainly raise the capital.

ETA: Or, somewhat similarly, why do women wear high heels when they say that they're uncomfortable?

[Wilfrid]

If you think about it, saying you find something comfortable when you don't, is different from finding something comfortable which others find uncomfortable.

[Adrian]

If you think about it, saying you find something comfortable when you don't, is different from finding something comfortable which others find uncomfortable.

Some women (apparently) find high heels comfortable or are at least indifferent to the discomfort that others seem to have with them. Most women wear them in certain social situations because they would feel weird and uncomfortable in flats.*

* I grant you that it's an imperfect analogy for a number of reasons, but it's kind of a fun one, and it serves the point well enough.

[Wilfrid]

Some women (apparently) find high heels comfortable or are at least indifferent to the discomfort that others seem to have with them. Most women wear them in certain social situations because they would feel weird and uncomfortable in flats.

(I know.)

But do you see the point of the distinction?

[mitchells]

Women wear high heels because they believe they make them look hot and women are willing to sustain high levels of pain and discomfort as well as long term damage in order to look hot.

[Adrian]

Some women (apparently) find high heels comfortable or are at least indifferent to the discomfort that others seem to have with them. Most women wear them in certain social situations because they would feel weird and uncomfortable in flats.

(I know.)

But do you see the point of the distinction?

Yeah (but I dispute the statement of discomfort, and chairs really are a proxy in all this aren't they?), but you see what I'm getting at here as well? Good.

[Orik]

Just got the Mugaritz book. It should be mandatory reading for those participating in the restaurant meta-thread.

[taion]

Incidentally, the Frej chefs stated in their Eater interview that they tried to open a "real restaurant" but couldn't get it off the ground. While they're obviously very talented, even conditioned on their success at Frej, I'm not sure that they'd have found equal success had they opened a normal restaurant in Manhattan.

Anyway, can we just agree that it's a good thing that it's now possible in principle to eat very at Frej for $45, rather than eating not-nearly-as-well in a more traditional restaurant that works at the same price point? Whether it's innovative in context or not, it seems like a good thing.

[taion]

Because, frankly, Frej vastly outperforms anything else <$50 and a lot of places that are quite a bit more expensive, and BF and Roberta's are pretty much the best new restaurants in the last few years. The links between the two sets of restaurants are somewhat tenuous, but I don't think it's coincidence that none of them had traditional Manhattan buildouts.

[Sneakeater]

Anyway, can we just agree that it's a good thing that it's now possible in principle to eat very at Frej for $45, rather than eating not-nearly-as-well in a more traditional restaurant that works at the same price point?

I would emphasize the "in principle".

In fact, I would change it to "in theory".

In actual fact, the existence of Frej makes no difference whatsoever to my life.

[taion]

Anyway, can we just agree that it's a good thing that it's now possible in principle to eat very at Frej for $45, rather than eating not-nearly-as-well in a more traditional restaurant that works at the same price point?

I would emphasize the "in principle".

In fact, I would change it to "in theory".

In actual fact, the existence of Frej makes no difference whatsoever to my life.

Frej's problems of scale seem to be different from BF or Roberta's, though. Can't imagine they won't open a proper restaurant at some point.

[taion]

So it should affect your forwards.

[oakapple]

Eater runs an interview with Drew Nieporent (restaurateur behind Nobu, Corton, Tribeca Grill, Centrico, etc.), in which he comments on expensive tasting menus. Bottom line, he thinks Thomas Keller and Per Se made the $150 tasting menu possible by making it look cheap:

What do you think of this whole trend of very expensive tasting menus? Frankly, I'm shocked by it. You're looking at the guy, in 1985, who worked at La Grenouille, where the prix fixe was in the $70 range—back then! And when I opened Montrachet, I charged $16 dollars—one six—and David Bouley was the chef! So I've always been like Crazy Eddie [laughter]. I always thought it was my responsibility to pass the savings onto the customer. So if I'm in a low-rent area, I should not be charging a lot of money. But I think what happens is, and I think it happened with Thomas Keller, in Europe where prices were double what we were charging, it takes one person to set the bar high. So when Per Se did what they did, everyone can then come in just under that. I fight with Paul [Liebrant] all the time, because obviously our prices at Corton were raised quite high. But I find it extraordinary when a new restaurant opens that they're charging $150 out of the box. Where is the market for that?

[taion]

Is Drew implying that he would like Corton to be cheaper?

He also seems to be missing the point by quite a bit - seems more like the opposite, in that you can't do anything interesting unless you're small.

[Orik]

At least now we know who posted that comment:

By the way, the comments you guys got on Eater today on the post about Isa's new menu, comparing Isa to Robertas—you have some clever people who are logging in to your site.