371 replies to this topic

[changeup]

Yeah, the Craft thing is interesting.

I noticed this too after looking at the menu:

Chef/Owner Tom Colicchio
Executive Chef James Tracey
Chef de Cuisine Chris Lavey

It struck me cause I noticed JG switched to this three tiered credit model recently as well.

[nuxvomica]

hey, even a cocktail joint like Demi Monde is doing a nine-course tasting menu at "chef's table" for $130

[Wilfrid]

I'll add Demi-Monde; I couldn't find the details when I looked.

[Suzanne F]

I'll add Demi-Monde; I couldn't find the details when I looked.

I just posted a link to Eater on the Demi Monde thread.

Ahem:

SHO: $85 for four courses, $100 for five

[Sneakeater]

That's not a tasting menu. That's just a choice from the menu at a set price. The stuff Wilfrid is listing are those mandatory 7-to-12 (or more) course extravaganzas where you have no say in the matter other than to whisper "that was good" breathlessly to the chef afterward and have a cigarette (except you can't).

[Wilfrid]

I did look at SHO and was surprised to find no tasting menu. I thought there used to be one?

[Orik]

I did look at SHO and was surprised to find no tasting menu. I thought there used to be one?

The room is so creepy most people just run for their lives after the appetizers.

[Suzanne F]

I did look at SHO and was surprised to find no tasting menu. I thought there used to be one?

Yes, there was; 11 or 15 courses, I think. I never had it.

Sorry, I forgot the distinction between a tasting menu ("Here, eat this bite of art food. Now eat this one. Now this." etc. X 15 or so) and a "normal" multicourse meal when I mentioned SHO. Since I consider being forced to sit through 15 to 25 or so "courses" as a fate heartily to be avoided, I don't keep up with who's doing those. I was just thinking about high-end restaurants that serve many courses. Mea culpa..

But if your definition is lots and lots of courses and no choice (fka table d'hote), you should add Hecho en Dumbo (Bowery), $55. Not a zillion courses, but otherwise fits.

[Wilfrid]

Yes, I was just looking at the top end, and only because the landscape has finally changed after years of Boulud-Bouley-Bernardin-JG predictability.

[Orik]

Yes, I was just looking at the top end, and only because the landscape has finally changed after years of Boulud-Bouley-Bernardin-JG predictability.

I think if you look at the total checks, Per Se, JG, etc. still rule though. (The average check at Per Se is $880 iirc).

[Wilfrid]

Yes, but the range of new entrants is startling. It had begun to look like the high end was a real closed shop, and that nobody would even attempt to breach it.

It is honestly interesting that people have gone about it in such an unconventional way.

[Wilfrid]

And I wonder if, despite your observation about total checks, this will give the old guard impetus to raise their prices.

ETA: Unless tables are standing empty (which I doubt), Jean-Georges looks about $15 under priced.

[oakapple]

And I wonder if, despite your observation about total checks, this will give the old guard impetus to raise their prices.

ETA: Unless tables are standing empty (which I doubt), Jean-Georges looks about $15 under priced.

Until very recently, you would have said that a $150+ tasting menu is something that only a few places can get away with. The old guard has to be now wondering how high it can go.

One big difference is that you can still dine at Jean Georges for $105. Counting amuses, you'll still be getting about 7 courses, even though it's not technically a tasting menu. The food is the same quality, and you've got a lot more flexibility about what to eat.

If you want Atera at all, the no-choices tasting menu is your only option.

[Adrian]

And I wonder if, despite your observation about total checks, this will give the old guard impetus to raise their prices.

ETA: Unless tables are standing empty (which I doubt), Jean-Georges looks about $15 under priced.

Until very recently, you would have said that a $150+ tasting menu is something that only a few places can get away with. The old guard has to be now wondering how high it can go.

Maybe, maybe not. The counter seating places are really just lobbing off the top end of the demand curve. How much could BF charge if it had to do more than a dozen covers? How much could Per Se charge if it only had to do ten?

ETA: Jean Georges was great value when it was $98.

[oakapple]

Until very recently, you would have said that a $150+ tasting menu is something that only a few places can get away with. The old guard has to be now wondering how high it can go.

Maybe, maybe not. The counter seating places are really just lobbing off the top end of the demand curve. How much could BF charge if it had to do more than a dozen covers? How much could Per Se charge if it only had to do ten?

At present, there is clearly more demand for BF than supply. They couldn't serve 100 covers a night, but they could serve more than their present capacity. I believe that's true at Ko, as well.

There is pent-up demand at the larger places, too. Daniel, Jean Georges, Le Bernardin, Per Se, and Del Posto, have all been full, or pretty close to full, every time I have gone. This always suggested to me, that if you could open another place just like that, and manage to convince people you were just as good, you would not lack for customers.

Brooklyn Fare, if reports are correct [since I haven't been there], offers substantially similar quality food as the old-guard places, with some of the trappings stripped away. Sure enough, it is booked solid. Then a few more appear, and if they're successful too, it really says a lot about what people are prepared to pay.

But it has to be good, as the failure of Romera shows.

ETA: Jean Georges was great value when it was $98.

I'd say it still is, at $108. [I said $105 upthread, which was incorrect.]