23 replies to this topic

[Sneakeater]

In and of itself, this place doesn't merit more than a citation in the local "Best Mouthfuls" thread. But it implicates so many issues relating to The Way We Eat Now that a thread seems warranted.

Zito's is a mock Old Skool Italian deli. It has the standard hot and cold sandwiches. It's run by young Italian-Americans. I don't know their CV, but they definitely seem to have had some training. The food has pretensions to being good: better ingredients, clean, careful cooking, etc.

You walk in, and see all the cliched Italian-American ingredients on shelves lining the wall, and the first thing you think is: imitation Torrissi. But then you think that, since these guys aren't Batali proteges and hence get left alone by the food media, it's Torrissi without the bullshit.

In other words, instead of having to wade through a bunch of offensive offputting media hype, you can just evaluate the food for what it is.

And you know what? It's good.

Let's talk about one dish, which is emblematic: the prosciutto balls. There was a very (locally) famous Italian deli in Carroll Gardens called Joe's Superette. It just closed several months ago. Joe's was legendary for its prosciutto balls: fried ricotta balls with some prosciutto folded in. The prosciutto balls at Zito's are a very conscious imitation of Joe's (the signage refers to them as "Joe's style").*

But I'll tell you what. Joe's prosciutto balls were legendary, and very delicious. But these are better. Careful technique means something when you're deep frying.

The Old Skool places, even at their best, all too often just don't cook as carefully as the new young guys with culinary pretensions. And ingredient quality is often simply not a concern of the Old Skool guys. And even in this base kind of food, it can show.**

This isn't true only of Italian-American food, either. It is -- or at least can be -- true of other "ethnic" foods as well. I don't think that having white (or, in the case of Mission Chinese, the wrong kind of Asian) guys cooking Asian food automatically makes it better. But I don't think the new non-ethnically correct Asian places should be written off, either. Pok Pok is not as good as the very best "authentic" Thai restaurants in New York City -- but it's miles better than the run-of-the-mill. It's interesting to see what cleaner, more technically correct cooking, coupled with improved ingredients, can do. It isn't ALWAYS better. But it isn't always empty hype, either.

And the same goes for other kinds of vernacular cooking. It isn't always empty pretense when chefs try to cook "good" versions of vernacular food. Of course, sometimes you get prettified blanded-out versions of gutsy dishes. But that's becoming less and less of a problem, I think, as the chefs are becoming more careful about staying true to the food they're "improving."

The problem we have now, of course, is that this seems to be MOST of what's being done, to the point where it's edging non-vernacular food out. But that's a separate matter.
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* Joe's balls are now available at some Old Skool place in Soho. (I loved typing that sentence.)

** This shouldn't be taken as an across-the-board condemnation of the Old Skool places. I can't imagine that the caponata at Ferdinando's Focacciaria could be bettered, for example.

[Orik]

That Pok Pok or MCF aren't better than the best authentic/non-self-aware places in nyc is pretty embarrassing for them.

At least with Italian-American the bar is set very low.

[Wilfrid]

Interesting to read this after my Lake Trout post. Trying to get into the mind-set of someone making distinctly-better-than-usual fried fish sandwiches, but doing everything he can to make his food (and the joint) look like trash.

[Sneakeater]

As I said, it really implicates a lot of issues about The Way We Eat Now.

[Eatmywords]

“..inspired by all the great Italian American delis in NYC. We thank you for all your years of dedication and service”.

How about a B&E chicken parm with fresh house made mozz for $10? C'mon now. Menu.

[Sneakeater]

What's the chicken parm hero cost at Majestic Pizza (the best such place near my office)? $6.50? It isn't worth an extra $3.50 for better ingredients (like, for instance, good cheese) and actual good non-greasy non-gloppy cooking?

[splinky]

isn't this place a chain or hoping to become a chain? 7th ave, 5th ave. coney island? that's a pretty good reason to keep it simple. easy to duplicate the food in multiple locations

[Sneakeater]

I knew about the 5th Ave. one (although I don't think it's open yet, is it?). I didn't know about the Coney Island one. But, yeah. Good for them.

[Eatmywords]

It could be worth it. I just find the deli ‘dedications’ and ‘inspirations’ a bit shticky and selfserving.

[Sneakeater]

Sure. But the reason this place is tolerable is that they're not as cool as the Torrissi boys.

[Lex]

I knew about the 5th Ave. one (although I don't think it's open yet, is it?). I didn't know about the Coney Island one. But, yeah. Good for them.

The 5th Ave. location has been open for about a month. It replaced Press 195.

[Sneakeater]

Oh. I should have gone there. It's closer to my apartment.

Unless I'm missing it, their website doesn't seem to list it yet.

[Sneakeater]

It could be worth it. I just find the deli ‘dedications’ and ‘inspirations’ a bit shticky and selfserving.

Sure. But the reason this place is tolerable is that they're not as cool as the Torrissi boys.

Or, to put it another way, what Zito's is Torrissi (meaning OG Torrissi -- now I guess Parm) done without any irony.

To me, that's refreshing. Others may find it boring or worse.

[Lex]

Here's their menu. My experience with old line Italian delis is that they offer a fairly broad range of preset combination sandwiches. You can, of course, tweak the combinations or invent your own. Zito's menu seems far shorter.

My go to place in the neighborhood for deli sandwiches is City Sub. The knock on them, from CH, is that "they're nothing special." As far as that goes, it's true. The cold cuts are Boar's Head, not imported and the bread isn't artisanal. Within those limitations they execute flawlessly. The ingredients are always fresh* and the sandwiches are carefully made. Nicely sized too and at around $8 each, well priced. Like the old Italian delis they offer 24 different combination sandwiches.

City Sub is the equivalent of a corner pizzeria serving a great old fashioned NY street slice. There should be one on every corner but actually they're few and far between. When you find one that's good it needs to be celebrated.

* Freshness is helped by sales volume. City Sub is about a block from the 78th Precinct and just before shift changes cops arrive and often order 20 sandwiches at a clip.

[Sneakeater]

There's a really great Italian deli/food shop (more food shop than deli, actually) on 7th Avenue around 10th or 11th or so. I can't remember their name. Their salads are notable. Do you know it?