3205 replies to this topic

[Anthony Bonner]

I've said this before, but it's worth reiterating that the contract price reflects the value of the player over the course of the entire contract and not just a given season. A-Rod may be vastly overpaid, but the total value of the contract has to be looked at in terms of his total production over the life of the deal, not just for any one season.* Usually, a player, even an elite player, may take a discount on the early contract salary for consistent payments throughout. Thus, he'll tend to under-perform his yearly salary in the later years. Similarly, a team may backload a deal to win when the player's productive at the start.

* Yes, yes, the circumstances of the A-Rod deal, etc. Not my point.

Not just that but the marginal utility of the extra dollars. Its not like the Yankees have budget issues. It just represents Labor extracting wages from Capital.

The cost to the yankees of a bad deal is very very low. They've got lots of room for error. A Rod would have pushed Tom Hicks into bankruptcy even faster.

[Adrian]

I've said this before, but it's worth reiterating that the contract price reflects the value of the player over the course of the entire contract and not just a given season. A-Rod may be vastly overpaid, but the total value of the contract has to be looked at in terms of his total production over the life of the deal, not just for any one season.* Usually, a player, even an elite player, may take a discount on the early contract salary for consistent payments throughout. Thus, he'll tend to under-perform his yearly salary in the later years. Similarly, a team may backload a deal to win when the player's productive at the start.

* Yes, yes, the circumstances of the A-Rod deal, etc. Not my point.

Not just that but the marginal utility of the extra dollars. Its not like the Yankees have budget issues. It just represents Labor extracting wages from Capital.

The cost to the yankees of a bad deal is very very low. They've got lots of room for error. A Rod would have pushed Tom Hicks into bankruptcy even faster.

Right. In a sense, A-Rod (at the time) had a monopoly on a very unique talent. The contract price is very close to what the price for his services would be in a truly free and open market for talent. In that sense, the contracts players like A-Rod get in baseball are more "fair" than in other sports (like the NFL, where owners extract huge amounts from players).

[Lex]

The Yankees were idiots to re-up with Rodriguez. He opted out of his contract at the end of 2007 after he had a career year. Look what happened afterwards.



Except for 2010 he's been a very good player, not an elite player.

[Adrian]

The Yankees were idiots to re-up with Rodriguez. He opted out of his contract at the end of 2007 after he had a career year. Look what happened afterwards.



Except for 2010 he's been a very good player, not an elite player.

Right, I appreciate that point. It also seems bad because the Yankees were essentially the only team bidding from what I recall. Still, pretty good production, if overpriced (though I don't see how 2010 was more productive than the other years. His OPS was down over 2009 and 2008 as was his WAR*).

* "were his WAR"? Grammarians discuss.

[Lex]

One of the background facts in the A-Rod salary discussion is the idea that "Yes, A-Rod is overpaid but the Yankees have more money than God. They can afford it."

That was certainly true for awhile but the landscape is changing. The MLB luxury tax is going up.

The New York Yankees pay at a rate of 40% on the amount of their payroll over $178 million. That figure includes the average, annual value of player contract, plus benefits. The Boston Red Sox, who exceeded the threshold for the second straight year, pays 30%. There is an incentive to lower payroll, if in any year the team goes under the threshold, the rate decreases 17.5% the next time the tax is paid.

Under MLB's new labor contract, the Yankees' rate will increase to 42.5% next season and rise again to 50% in 2013 if they continue to break the threshold. Boston will see a 40% rate next season. The team was hit with a $13.9 million luxury tax bill for 2011, which was actually their lowest since 2003. The Red Sox got a bill for $3.4 million, more than double their bill in 2010, which was $1.5 million.

Things may change but the Yankees appear to be making a genuine effort to trim their payroll from the it's current obscene level to something that's merely exorbitant. I think part of this is due to the increasingly punishing level of the luxury tax. The other thing is that old George, bless him, isn't around any more. Steinbrenner was a prick but no one ever questioned his determination to win at all costs. Now the kids are in charge. Maybe they think it's OK to only win the World Series every 4 or 5 years.

When old man Steinbrenner was pulling the strings they would have made a run at Darvish. I hear plenty of talk that they don't have the money to sign Swisher next year. Rodriguez is being paid twice as much as he's worth. I'll bet Cashman wishes he had an extra $15 million to play with.

[Adrian]

Things may change but the Yankees appear to be making a genuine effort to trim their payroll from the it's current obscene level to something that's merely exorbitant.

I mean, I'm the kind of guy who argues that professional athletes are, if anything, underpaid*, but your point is well received.

* They're paid well above their reservation price but well below their FMV.

[Lex]

Things may change but the Yankees appear to be making a genuine effort to trim their payroll from the it's current obscene level to something that's merely exorbitant.

I mean, I'm the kind of guy who argues that professional athletes are, if anything, underpaid*, but your point is well received.

* They're paid well above their reservation price but well below their FMV.

[Adrian]

Things may change but the Yankees appear to be making a genuine effort to trim their payroll from the it's current obscene level to something that's merely exorbitant.

I mean, I'm the kind of guy who argues that professional athletes are, if anything, underpaid*, but your point is well received.

* They're paid well above their reservation price but well below their FMV.

Shall we mark this moment with a sticky to the top of the board?

[Sneakeater]

Things may change but the Yankees appear to be making a genuine effort to trim their payroll from the it's current obscene level to something that's merely exorbitant.

I mean, I'm the kind of guy who argues that professional athletes are, if anything, underpaid*, but your point is well received.

* They're paid well above their reservation price but well below their FMV.

Shall we mark this moment with a sticky to the top of the board?

No, I think this would best be kept private between the two of you.

[Stone]

The Yankees were idiots to re-up with Rodriguez. He opted out of his contract at the end of 2007 after he had a career year. Look what happened afterwards.



Except for 2010 he's been a very good player, not an elite player.

Did he sleep with your girlfriend or something? Your personal vendetta rivals that guy who hates David Chang.

[Wilfrid]

Y'all are missing my point. Yes, I wish the Yankees had shaved the price of A-Rod, but...

In a sense, A-Rod (at the time) had a monopoly on a very unique talent. The contract price is very close to what the price for his services would be in a truly free and open market for talent.

It's not just his talent that's unique. He's uniquely positioned to glide past a series of major batting milestones, every one of them being a fabulous opportunity to promote the Yankee brand. When he first came to the Bronx, there was a serious prospect of him becoming the number one HR hitter of all time. While that's receded, he's going to overtake many other Big Name records.

Can't you hear the cash registers?

There are contracts are based not only on ability to produce on the field, but ability to make money for the brand too. When the Mets were forced to give up Reyes, they weren't just giving up his production: they were giving up all kinds of value to fans and potential fans as well.

[Wilfrid]

God knows what other records he'll pass along the way, but look at this:

1. Barry Bonds 762
2. Hank Aaron 755
3. Babe Ruth 714
4. Willie Mays 660
5. Alex Rodriguez 633

He'll pass Willie Mays this year or early next year. Then it's a question of fitness - admittedly a big question. But every landmark passed will be accompanied not just by ballyhoo, but by fiendishly profitable marketing.

[mitchells]

Y'all are missing my point. Yes, I wish the Yankees had shaved the price of A-Rod, but...

In a sense, A-Rod (at the time) had a monopoly on a very unique talent. The contract price is very close to what the price for his services would be in a truly free and open market for talent.

It's not just his talent that's unique. He's uniquely positioned to glide past a series of major batting milestones, every one of them being a fabulous opportunity to promote the Yankee brand. When he first came to the Bronx, there was a serious prospect of him becoming the number one HR hitter of all time. While that's receded, he's going to overtake many other Big Name records.

Can't you hear the cash registers?

There are contracts are based not only on ability to produce on the field, but ability to make money for the brand too. When the Mets were forced to give up Reyes, they weren't just giving up his production: they were giving up all kinds of value to fans and potential fans as well.

True at the time the signed him but I think his admitted use of steroids will significantly reduce the money he makes for the Yankee brand going forward.

[Lex]

He'll pass Willie Mays this year or early next year. Then it's a question of fitness - admittedly a big question. But every landmark passed will be accompanied not just by ballyhoo, but by fiendishly profitable marketing.

The Yankees don't need more marketing. They need pitching.

[Wilfrid]

I do disagree. Baseball fans will gripe about it, but A-Rod's appeal goes beyond the sport. When A-Rod does something (okay, fucks up), it's front page news, not back page.

The countless tourists snapping photos of him and buying merchandise don't care about steroids, and he just doesn't turn people off as a personality in the way Barry Bonds (or Roger Clemens) does.

You can't overlook the fact that he's incredibly handsome. This is not irrelevant to his appeal beyond sports nerds.