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Crown Shy


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#46 Chambolle

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 10:00 AM

So best I can tell, and I’m being TOTALLY serious, people now seem to fully agree with all my major points because I’m not hearing anything to dispute them ... and some even repeat themselves and thereby reiterate what I ALREADY said (that is, that champagne is (very) well priced). I even gave an example

Sorry, Seth, we haven’t formally met, I’m Chambolle (but my friends call me Chambo and you can too*). I’m a total son of a bitch who likes to stay totally on-point and I’m highly fact-based. If you can deal with that, I think you may like me. If not, you’re going to really hate me. By the way, I take strong issue with your cherry-picking a super high retail price for Beaux Sens ... because you’re not showing bon sens ... since a fair price is a little more than HALF your retail price

My major points were about Spain and France outside champagne ... and those regions make up the heart of their list


* and if folks are tired of hearing me repeat that, please understand that that’s exactly how I feel when people assume I can’t read when in fact I have demonstrated that I read AND understood



#47 Chambolle

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 10:50 AM

[and I’m now going to repeat myself because the prior post was a rabid rapid-fire response when I shockingly stumbled upon free WiFi iPhone access on this flight ... at least for the moment. This is what I was going to post and now can ... take cover ... incoming Chambo !!!! ]

Joe, facts are stubborn things and you need to be careful about your facts. This is a tiny point but it’s plenty illustrative. I am NOT in NYC nor NJ nor the US. I am in France. These words come with love from Paris. Petty point, I agree, but let’s try to stay fact based, everyone. Non-facts are not my thing

Read this thread starting from joe’s post #26 about potential “bargains strewn throughout”. If Chambo said nothing then the clear MF view on this wine list would be that joe’s “bargain’s everywhere” belief is pretty much fact. In fact, we hear confirmation that it’s SO fairly priced ... no no no make that ... More than fair followed by four exclamation points.

I found this intriguing since I may be eating there soon, so I looked and just shook my head about how confused people are about basic ideas of fairness ... and I said nothing for quite a while ... except privately to a potential roommate

I find it quite unusual that certain people who are normally SO wine posty are now SO silent. What’s with that ? And where in the world is Mister More than fair !!!! Can’t seem to find him anywhere ...

What’s interesting is that you should understand that Chambo desperately WANTS to be WRONG. Repeat he WANTS to be WRONG but based upon current feedback, no one has disputed at all that France and Spanish wines are NOT fair by any reasonable definition of the word. And Italy, which I know less well, mais ça va, is fairly punishing too.

I had ALREADY said that champagne prices were (very) good value so by reiterating that point and saying nothing about the rest of France and Spain just seems to be yet another person fully agreeing with sweet little Chambo

Show me the bargains !

Save me the money !

Point out specific, very interesting American / German / Austrian wines that are more than fairly priced ... and don’t make it haute, keep it mid-range, but make it good ... teach Chambo a thing or two ... I love learning and I’m totally open to it ... and don’t let the following sentence limit you but keep in the back of your mind if your wine is severely limiting my ability to freely order off most of their menu

I’ll note for the record that I like good champagne very much. I love white wines and drink them all the time. You couldn’t imagine how much champagne I drink. I live in Paris, ya know. You go to anyone’s house and you’re bringing bubbles and you’re bubbling the host’s bubbles the moment you step inside. Thats my experience, at least. So yes, three cheers for champagne prices but can you see that maybe Chambo doesn’t need to popping champagne in the financial district unless he’s closing a major deal

By the way, does anyone drink reds nowadays ... or is that no longer trendy ... and hence doesn’t factor in to whether a wine list is SO fair ? Show me more than fair in red in France or Spain which make up the heart of their wine list. Move to somewhere good in Italy if you want ...

Plane taking off ... gotta post from France ... beware tis incomplete and total stream of consciousness ... WTF ! no network while taxiing to runway ! unbelievable ... France so sucks ... so glad to be leaving this trou de merde and finally reconnect with my beloved New York ... and Mother Dear ... Mother Dear first in fact

#48 joethefoodie

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 10:59 AM

Joe, facts are stubborn things and you need to be careful about your facts. This is a tiny point but it’s plenty illustrative. I am NOT in NYC nor NJ nor the US. I am in France. These words come with love from Paris. Petty point, I agree, but let’s try to stay fact based, everyone. Non-facts are not my thing
 

I actually think you need to do way more research (on your own - stop asking us) to find NYC restaurants with fair French and Spanish wine prices. Especially if you feel fair French and Spanish wine prices, in NYC restaurants, make those restaurants good.

 

Well, either that, or stay in Paris? And fly your mom over.



#49 joethefoodie

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 11:06 AM

But since I'm such a nice guy, check out this place - sounds right up your alley...

 

Tomiño - A Galician Tavern



#50 Chambolle

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 12:45 PM

Joe, you’re NOT at all on-point and you’re switching the subject to something completely off-topic for this thread and I’m interested in staying on point.

It’s fine if I don’t agree with what someone else thinks is fair or SO fair or more than fair ... but I would like to see specific examples from this list that folks feel are at a fair price and that they would enjoy drinking and would actually order (each person can try to give me a few French and a few Spanish of each color and then offer up their best most interesting values in America / Germany / Austria or wherever, kinda like what Seth did ... but just name the wines and their price on the wine list) to better understand people’s concept of fairness ... and then I’ll provide documented photographic facts from my personal library that are dead-on head-on on-point with where I’m heading. I’m doing this for a reason joe

Im not going do any of the above now with my horrific iPhone-only snail-paced connection

Maybe that would be interesting ... maybe everyone’s eyes might be opened ... maybe everyone would learn something, Chambo included

Joe, I’m rarely off point and straying aimlessly ... I always have a clear destination but these threads are always thrown off track and are too aimless to ever allow me to arrive in The Promised Land ... unless of course I attempt to take full control as I plan to do right here and right now 👻 ... and if one thinks I am aimlessly blabbing ... I agree it may seem so to the untuned eye ... but the odds are that person simply doesn’t understand where I’m coming from ... which I fully fully understand ... but I have my role to play and I plan to play it like a pro ...

#51 Orik

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 03:46 PM

 

Yes, that's great if unsustainable. 

 

But the markups on food are terrifying.

 

 

our dinner cost substantially less than our dinner at rezdora the night before. can't speak to ingredient costs at either place but we preferred our dinner at crown shy.

 

 

I haven't been to rezdora so I can't comment.

 

It's possible that this was an off night at Crown Shy - other than oysters and bread no food arrived at the table for over an hour, and the short rib, which is depicted in PR materials as hunks of beautifully marbled and seared beef was a line of shriveled, brown bits with no sear, bits of such poor quality that we each had a couple and then sent the rest back for the kitchen to enjoy. Surely they couldn't have switched over to worse beef (and less of it!)?... maybe someone had set the sous vide temp wrong.

 

But other dishes, such as carrots that I'm pretty sure were also sous vide, preserving their natural lack of flavor, and then vaguely charred and served with a couple of gummy razor clam slices, and the fact that other than ribs the choices for big entree are branzino and chicken, made me think it's just not a restaurant for me, even if wine prices are appealing for nyc. 


sandwiches that are large and filling and do not contain tuna or prawns

#52 mongo_jones

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 04:15 PM

hmmm. on the basis of one meal each hard to say which is the outlier. we had the opposite experience with time: our meal went quite fast. and we didn't get any of those dishes and the cooked dishes we did get were done very well (octopus, caramelle, quail).


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#53 Orik

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 04:47 PM

Of course, could be a matter of good or bad luck.

 

The champagne (lack of) markup is truly inexplicable.


sandwiches that are large and filling and do not contain tuna or prawns

#54 Anthony Bonner

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 06:01 PM

Does grower champagne sell?   I kinda always thought it only sold to the geekiest of wine types.


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#55 Seth Gordon

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 06:38 PM

I take strong issue with your cherry-picking a super high retail price for Beau Sens ... since a fair price is a little more than HALF your retail price

 

Everything is relative. What you personally would consider a fair price is a bit irrelevant to what the actual lowest retail price in NYC is, unless you open a wine shop here and sell bottles of 2013 Beaux Sens for $68. In which case I would happily pop in, say hi, and purchase a case. And while it isn't by any means exhaustive, the stubborn fact is the cheapest bottle of 2013 Beaux Sens that wine-searcher.com found - not just within NYC but within 200 miles of Crown Shy - was $137.

 

 

Joe, facts are stubborn things and you need to be careful about your facts. This is a tiny point but it’s plenty illustrative. I am NOT in NYC nor NJ nor the US. I am in France.

 

Well, if you're eating at Crown Shy, you would be in NYC.

 

---

 

I can't help you with "mid-range" selections because that's purely subjective. For you, mid-range might mean $50-$100, for someone else it might mean $100-$200. (Though on most NYC menus, and on this particular menu, $50-$100 would be the low-range) - and also, as Joe pointed out, maybe research the menu a bit more before asking for everyone else's input.

That said, while $150 and up is certainly getting into splurge territory for me, if it was a splurgey occasion and I was in an Austrian-y mood I might start ogling that 2003 Brundlmayer, despite the fact that there's only a couple things on the menu I think it'd pair particularly well with. (Though if it was a splurgey occasion I probably wouldn't be at Crown Shy, but somewhere splurgier.)



#56 Tubbs

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 06:48 PM

I've seen the beaux sens offered by gray market guys (many of whom I know sell to many NYC restaurants) around 80-90. Still by NYC standards a very reasonable markup. Fact is the wine market in the US sucks and the only way restaurants might have what chambo calls reasonable prices are if they import themselves or bought a lot of good wine years ago and don't keep keep their prices in line with current market.

#57 Rich

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 06:58 PM

Bern's



#58 Tubbs

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 07:04 PM

Right.

#59 joethefoodie

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 08:42 PM

Except for the opportunity cost.



#60 Chambolle

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 07:22 AM

other than oysters and bread no food arrived at the table for over an hour, and the short rib, which is depicted in PR materials as hunks of beautifully marbled and seared beef was a line of shriveled, brown bits with no sear, bits of such poor quality that we each had a couple and then sent the rest back for the kitchen to enjoy. Surely they couldn't have switched over to worse beef (and less of it!)?... maybe someone had set the sous vide temp wrong.


Sounds pretty good :blink: the product AND technique :wacko: ... for nyc*

 

And this is MF's top rec in town at this time, is that correct ?
 

carrots that I'm pretty sure were also sous vide, preserving their natural lack of flavor, and then vaguely charred and served with a couple of gummy razor clam slices, and the fact that other than ribs the choices for big entree are branzino and chicken, made me think it's just not a restaurant for me, even if wine prices are appealing for nyc.

 

Consistent quality of product and cooking technique ... that's good too ... consistency is important in my book.

 

Very nice choice of product too ! Chicken and would that be farmed branzino ?

 

But the question that's obviously hanging in the air ... what did ya drink ?

 

And a final, very serious question, Orik ... where would YOU recommend that I go for dinner next week that is NOT the total high end, that is NOT tasting menu nonsense, but is very good bistro-resto that is maybe nipping at the heels of a 1* level (or at that level) and is a cool, enjoyable place for a gal who likes such non-formal places with a good energy in the room and wants to be able to talk to Chambo without screaming. Some noise and music IS desired, but having to raise your voice to be heard should NOT be required.

 

 

* just some humor  :) Orik, to show you that i'm not asleep at the switch ... even if I should be sleeping at 3am like I'd like to be ... I'll comment on wine only after SO fair and More than fair have a chance to comment ... and believe me, I understand what's going on, so I'm going to tackle it head-on, but first a little champagne explain ... or at least an attempt