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#76 LML

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 06:45 PM

I am by no means an authority or the authority. I struggle to adhere to what I view as the standards by which those with whom I want to communicate might understand me.

Yes, I realize that you identify strongly with middle class values. However, I question your desire to see the Anglophone population of the world do the same.
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#77 Busboy

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 06:56 PM

I am by no means an authority or the authority.  I struggle to adhere to what I view as the standards by which those with whom I want to communicate might understand me.

Yes, I realize that you identify strongly with middle class values. However, I question your desire to see the Anglophone population of the world do the same.

Now we have it. Bad grammar nobly proclaims one's rejection of middle class values.

Glad me figured what out.
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#78 LML

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 07:08 PM

I am by no means an authority or the authority.  I struggle to adhere to what I view as the standards by which those with whom I want to communicate might understand me.

Yes, I realize that you identify strongly with middle class values. However, I question your desire to see the Anglophone population of the world do the same.

Now we have it. Bad grammar nobly proclaims one's rejection of middle class values.

Glad me figured what out.

Here we go again, "bad grammar = not middle class".

I prefer, grammar insecurity = middle class.
A dress is neither a tragedy nor a painting it is a charming and ephemeral creation, not an everlasting work of art. Fashion should die and die quickly in order that commerce may survive.


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#79 Stone

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 07:15 PM

i am not particularly interested in things like split infinitives or technically incorrect usage which i nonetheless understand perfectly. i suppose i am one of those people responsible for a decline in "standards".

Why not teach them that it's all equally important? Writing is not only about the conveyance of an idea.

#80 Leslie

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 07:20 PM

I am by no means an authority or the authority.  I struggle to adhere to what I view as the standards by which those with whom I want to communicate might understand me.

Regarding standards of communication...

When you post in Yiddish or use Yiddish on this board, do you think you are communicating in away that will be understood by all the members here, even if your punctuation is correct? :( . If so, you would be incorrect. Non Yiddish users have no idea what you are saying on the board. You might as well be posting in Japanese. :(

#81 Rose

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 07:38 PM

Not all posts communicate equally to all members regardless of language, grammar or punctuation. When someone posts they make a decision as to how wide an audience they wish to communicate with just as its every reader's choice to either ask for clarification or ignore what has been written. Sometimes I attempt to write a post in French ( emphasis on the attempt part). Some people don't understand my French (sometimes because its not understandable :( )
curb your god

If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities. (Voltaire)


One is often told that it is very wrong to attack religion because religion makes men virtuous. So I am told; I have not noticed it. (Bertrand Russell)

Believing there is no god gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O, and all things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have. (Penn Jillette)

CERES GALLERY

#82 mongo_jones

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 07:38 PM

i am not particularly interested in things like split infinitives or technically incorrect usage which i nonetheless understand perfectly. i suppose i am one of those people responsible for a decline in "standards".

Why not teach them that it's all equally important? Writing is not only about the conveyance of an idea.

because i don't think it is all equally important. luckily i'm not the only teacher they encounter on their way through college so they can choose from a range of approaches.

i should also say that i don't teach writing per se. my classes are literature classes and my students have to write analytical papers. a grammatically correct but vapid paper is very uninteresting to me and will not be rewarded over a striking, well structured analysis which features some technical errors (as opposed to sloppiness, which i am very strict about). i don't say to my students that anything goes; i say that in the grand scheme of things some things are more important than others and that they need to become receptive to the needs of their audiences without letting themselves become completely shackled by those needs.

edit: for what it is worth, i already have a reputation for being one of the hardest graders on campus

Edited by mongo_jones, 06 February 2005 - 07:39 PM.

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#83 Leslie

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 07:50 PM

Not all posts communicate equally to all members regardless of language, grammar or punctuation.  When someone posts they make a decision as to how wide an audience they wish to communicate with just as its every reader's choice to either ask for clarification or ignore what has been written.  Sometimes I attempt to write a post in French ( emphasis on the attempt part).  Some people don't understand my French (sometimes because its not understandable  :( )


I quoted omnivorette's post because she was taking the position that her standards are to be understood on the board, and my position is that her posts are not always understandable to the membership, even with the use of proper punctuation. (especially since this was an important point of hers, to be understood).

If she wants the leeway to use yiddish on the board (which is understandable and no one has a problem with) she and others should give leeway for other people to post the way they want to as well... including banging out posts w/o consideration to punctuation or whatever, as long as they are understood by their target audience. :(

#84 Rose

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 07:54 PM

Not all posts communicate equally to all members regardless of language, grammar or punctuation.  When someone posts they make a decision as to how wide an audience they wish to communicate with just as its every reader's choice to either ask for clarification or ignore what has been written.  Sometimes I attempt to write a post in French ( emphasis on the attempt part).  Some people don't understand my French (sometimes because its not understandable  :( )


I quoted omnivorette's post because she was taking the position that her standards are to be understood on the board, and my position is that her posts are not always understandable to the membership, even with the use of proper punctuation. (especially since this was an important point of hers, to be understood).

If she wants the leeway to use yiddish on the board (which is understandable and no one has a problem with) she and others should give leeway for other people to post the way they want to as well... including banging out posts w/o consideration to punctuation or whatever, as long as they are understood by their target audience. :(

Believe me I give all the leeway anyone would want :(

Whatever Omni's view, she's entitled to it. She's not asking for a policy to dictate post format so why take it that way?
curb your god

If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities. (Voltaire)


One is often told that it is very wrong to attack religion because religion makes men virtuous. So I am told; I have not noticed it. (Bertrand Russell)

Believing there is no god gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O, and all things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have. (Penn Jillette)

CERES GALLERY

#85 Leslie

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 08:08 PM

Not all posts communicate equally to all members regardless of language, grammar or punctuation.  When someone posts they make a decision as to how wide an audience they wish to communicate with just as its every reader's choice to either ask for clarification or ignore what has been written.  Sometimes I attempt to write a post in French ( emphasis on the attempt part).  Some people don't understand my French (sometimes because its not understandable  :( )


I quoted omnivorette's post because she was taking the position that her standards are to be understood on the board, and my position is that her posts are not always understandable to the membership, even with the use of proper punctuation. (especially since this was an important point of hers, to be understood).

If she wants the leeway to use yiddish on the board (which is understandable and no one has a problem with) she and others should give leeway for other people to post the way they want to as well... including banging out posts w/o consideration to punctuation or whatever, as long as they are understood by their target audience. :(

Believe me I give all the leeway anyone would want :(

Whatever Omni's view, she's entitled to it. She's not asking for a policy to dictate post format so why take it that way?

Because some people in general felt it important enough to take the Alinea thread off topic for about 3 pages to discuss various proper grammar and proper placement of apostrophes, in addition to posting about it for several pages on this thread. That's why. To be clear, at this point I am making a general observation as to what (strangely :( )occured on the Alinea thread and here, not towards anyone in particular.

If it bothers people to read others spelling or grammar mistakes on the board (and my grammar is horrendous btw :( ) , how about if we just ignore it instead of posting about them. Ok?

#86 Rose

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 08:15 PM

I'm all for ignoring, believe me, but not as a policy. ( we don't need no.......)

As to the Alinea thread, the issue is then that it went off topic? That's a whole other kettle o' fish ( how's my apostrophe? :( )
curb your god

If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities. (Voltaire)


One is often told that it is very wrong to attack religion because religion makes men virtuous. So I am told; I have not noticed it. (Bertrand Russell)

Believing there is no god gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O, and all things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have. (Penn Jillette)

CERES GALLERY

#87 Leslie

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 08:27 PM

I have been making a note of the recommended books on grammar as lord knows I could use them. I've been out of school for awhile. For instance in my previous post, I have no idea if others should have an apostrophe after it (ie. If it bothers people to read others spelling or grammar mistakes...does others get an apostrophe?) . :( :(

#88 Busboy

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 08:32 PM

Not all posts communicate equally to all members regardless of language, grammar or punctuation.  When someone posts they make a decision as to how wide an audience they wish to communicate with just as its every reader's choice to either ask for clarification or ignore what has been written.  Sometimes I attempt to write a post in French ( emphasis on the attempt part).  Some people don't understand my French (sometimes because its not understandable  :( )


I quoted omnivorette's post because she was taking the position that her standards are to be understood on the board, and my position is that her posts are not always understandable to the membership, even with the use of proper punctuation. (especially since this was an important point of hers, to be understood).

If she wants the leeway to use yiddish on the board (which is understandable and no one has a problem with) she and others should give leeway for other people to post the way they want to as well... including banging out posts w/o consideration to punctuation or whatever, as long as they are understood by their target audience. :(

There's a significant difference between departing from standard English in pursuit of art or emphasis, and simply writing so poorly that one's point is not understood or that one's credibility is undermined.

Taking out after someone for missing a punctuation mark on a board like this, though, is a little over the top, however.

(Although writing without punctuation on purpose is pretentious, unless you're ee cummings; and not knowing how to write properly is, well, a bad sign.)
"We were just outside of Barstow, on the edge of the desert..." --HST

#89 Rose

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 08:42 PM

There's a significant difference between departing from standard English in pursuit of art or emphasis, and simply writing so poorly that one's point is not understood or that one's credibility is undermined.

Taking out after someone for missing a punctuation mark on a board like this, though, is a little over the top, however.

(Although writing without punctuation on purpose is pretentious, unless you're ee cummings; and not knowing how to write properly is, well, a bad sign.)

that all sounds good to me and im not ee cummings
curb your god

If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities. (Voltaire)


One is often told that it is very wrong to attack religion because religion makes men virtuous. So I am told; I have not noticed it. (Bertrand Russell)

Believing there is no god gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O, and all things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have. (Penn Jillette)

CERES GALLERY

#90 GG Mora

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 08:43 PM

I'd sooner gouge my eyes out with a melon-baller than correct anyone's grammar and spelling in a post here. Unless I'm poking fun, as in teasing Jinmyo about the spelling of De Stijijl. If I get the point, then what's the point of niggling the details?

But if someone insists on making a point about spelling and usage in, say, the business world, well, they ought to be sure and be right about it. Lest they do something so foolish as to insist, for example, that “worst” is not a word. :(