Rolling Stone

[backyardchef]

18 hours ago, Wilfrid said:

Suicide had shit thrown at them when they opened for The Clash in the UK and they’re pretty white.

Suicide might have intentionally taunted the audience into that, though...

[Wilfrid]

Could have avoided trouble by (1) calling the book The Masters of Rock and (2) not saying stupid stuff. Hard to argue that Joni Mitchell, Nina Simone or James Brown should be in a book with that title. I am also wondering whether he ever interview Black or woman musicians in any case.

[Wilfrid]

31 minutes ago, backyardchef said:

Suicide might have intentionally taunted the audience into that, though...

Yep. Nice little summary here: https://www.punk77.co.uk/groups/suicide.htm#:~:text=While by 1978 the band,In Plymouth The Nazis...

Interesting to think that in a few years bands consisting solely of guys with synthesizers would be common. Suicide (and Kraftwerk) way ahead of their time.

[Sneakeater]

2 hours ago, Wilfrid said:

Very, very intolerant audiences following that generation of punk bands. 

I'll elaborate on this (much) later, but you've got to understand that the New York punk scene (which was over by the time of these concerts in any event) was very different -- like it had nothing in common with -- the UK punk scene.

But this crowd wasn't the punk scene.  As I said, this was years past that (this was whenever Sandanista! came out).  This was the mainstream Rock audience.  What I'd call the WNEW-FM audience, if that means anything to you.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Sneakeater

[Wilfrid]

I don't think there's any disagreement. After its very early stages, the UK punk scene morphed from something very like the New York punk scene into a loud, intolerant, macho scene. It happened very fast. And I expect you get the equivalent US crowd at the kinds of Clash concerts you're talking about.

[Sneakeater]

Except that it was in no way Punk-identified.  It had no distinctive rituals or modes of dress or anything like that.  They didn't identify as having succeeded the CBGB audience (that was more the No Wave crowd).  They probably were pretty negative on what had gone on at CBs in the mid-'70s.

These were like Springsteen fans.  Like that.

[Sneakeater]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that this wasn't a subcultural audience distinct from the mainstream rock audience.

This WAS the mainstream rock audience.

 

[Wilfrid]

Oh, that is different from the UK.

[Sneakeater]

What happened is that The Clash crossed over here with London Calling.  They became a mainstream Rock band with a mainstream audience at that point.

(I mean, to be sure, not the BIGGEST one.  But they were played on those radio stations and drew from that audience base.)

Edited September 19, 2023 by Sneakeater

[Wilfrid]

They became a ... stadium band.

[Sneakeater]

They absolutely DID.

[backyardchef]

2 hours ago, Sneakeater said:

I guess what I'm trying to say is that this wasn't a subcultural audience distinct from the mainstream rock audience.

This WAS the mainstream rock audience.

 

And College Rock aka Alternative was born....before the slackers of indie rock. 

[Sneakeater]

That's really right.

[bloviatrix]

4 hours ago, Wilfrid said:

They became a ... stadium band.

They opened for The Who at Shea Stadium in '82. My parents wouldn't let me go - they said I was too young. I never forgave them.

[splinky]

1 hour ago, bloviatrix said:

They opened for The Who at Shea Stadium in '82. My parents wouldn't let me go - they said I was too young. I never forgave them.

They played at my college and I got pulled up on stage with them. 

[Mitchell101]

Living Colour on Jann Wenner:

https://x.com/livingcolour/status/1703920104738631815?s=46&t=ey959smNMnXdcnd7Y7rg-w

[Mitchell101]

They have to be the best Black rock and roll band ever? They are one of my favorite bands period. 

[Sneakeater]

Chuck Berry's 1950s band with Johnnie Johnson?

Edited September 19, 2023 by Sneakeater

[Sneakeater]

Ike Turner's Kings of Rhythm?

[Sneakeater]

The Five Royales?

[Mitchell101]

I’m still sticking with Living Colour….and groundbreaking as Black band playing metal. 

[Sneakeater]

22 hours ago, Wilfrid said:

Could have avoided trouble by (1) calling the book The Masters of Rock

That's something that's bothered me about Rolling Stone (and the Rock press in general -- but Rolling Stone is the worst in this respect) for years.

They assume that Rock music is all the music there is, and the Rock Era is the entire history of music.

So they'll publish a list of "The 100 Greatest Songs of All TIme", and not one will predate 1900, maybe one will predate 1930, and maybe two will predate 1950.  None of them will be by Schubert, none will be by Gershwin, none will be by medieval troubadours or anonymous medieval English people, etc. etc.

That could hardly be "The 100 Greatest Songs of All Time".  The 100 greatest Rock-adjacent songs they mean.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Sneakeater

[Sneakeater]

2 minutes ago, Mitchell101 said:

I’m still sticking with Living Colour….and groundbreaking as Black band playing metal. 

Black people basically invented Rock and Roll.

To call Living Colour (who I love) the greatest Black Rock and Roll band because they (excellently) played a White variant of the style seems a little Wennery.

[Sneakeater]

Now if you were to call them the greatest Black Rock band, that would be different.

[Sneakeater]

Also, how are we categorizing P-Funk for purposes of this discussion?  (I agree they're probably not a "Rock and Roll band".)