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And as far as this brain shrinkage nonsense goes, and this notion that women become forgetful and lose their memories? Perhaps initially, because they're exhausted.

 

the brain shrinks(like in size?) and then grows back after a long time..post natal. stress is also known to kill brain cells. i wont go as far as saying that women become stupid after pregnancy and childbirth, but they certainly change...often irreversibly..making them less than what they used to be...

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Concur with FB and here is my example -- one of my oldest friends mistakingly got pregnant (having an affair with a married man) at the age of 40. This was three years ago and not a week has gone by when I haven't received a phone call essentially talking her out of suicide. She is at the end of her rope not having realized how this child would affect her life (yes, there was some delusions that the "father" would come and rescue her and her child). She is close to bankruptcy and eviction and I am flying down to Los Angeles next month to help her pack; at 43 years of age, she is moving back to Charleston, South Carolina, back into her parents' house as a last-ditch effort just to survive.

 

 

Hmmm. Sounds more like post-coitus depression :P

 

you think depression and suicidal instincts are funny? the woman is speaking of her friend who is sinking and hanging on to threadbare hope...and you are making jokes about sex? is it because she made the cardinal mistake of not putting on her 'cheerful' mommy mask?

 

maybe this is why women claim to be deliriously happy with their decision to procreate.

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And as far as this brain shrinkage nonsense goes, and this notion that women become forgetful and lose their memories? Perhaps initially, because they're exhausted.

 

the brain shrinks(like in size?) and then grows back after a long time..post natal. stress is also known to kill brain cells. i wont go as far as saying that women become stupid after pregnancy and childbirth, but they certainly change...often irreversibly..making them less than what they used to be...

I agree women change after a child or two. I'm not sure this necessarily makes them "less" or "more." Have you got long term studies?

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And as far as this brain shrinkage nonsense goes, and this notion that women become forgetful and lose their memories? Perhaps initially, because they're exhausted.

 

the brain shrinks(like in size?) and then grows back after a long time..post natal. stress is also known to kill brain cells. i wont go as far as saying that women become stupid after pregnancy and childbirth, but they certainly change...often irreversibly..making them less than what they used to be...

I agree women change after a child or two. I'm not sure this necessarily makes them "less" or "more." Have you got long term studies?

 

i can look it up. it came out sometime in the late 90s...1997 or 1998.

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this is the problem...when people make uneducated assumptions about how women feel about pregnancy/childbirth/motherhood.....

bottomline, if you dont know about certain *intimate* experiences, it is best not to make assumptions and talk about it.

 

Physician, heal thyself!

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this is the problem...when people make uneducated assumptions about how women feel about pregnancy/childbirth/motherhood.....

bottomline, if you dont know about certain *intimate* experiences, it is best not to make assumptions and talk about it.

 

Physician, heal thyself!

 

that is ridiculous. a warning or cautionary tale is different from misinformation or exaggeration.

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And as far as this brain shrinkage nonsense goes, and this notion that women become forgetful and lose their memories? Perhaps initially, because they're exhausted.

 

the brain shrinks(like in size?) and then grows back after a long time..post natal. stress is also known to kill brain cells. i wont go as far as saying that women become stupid after pregnancy and childbirth, but they certainly change...often irreversibly..making them less than what they used to be...

I agree women change after a child or two. I'm not sure this necessarily makes them "less" or "more." Have you got long term studies?

 

i can look it up. it came out sometime in the late 90s...1997 or 1998.

 

brain shrinks during pregnancy; 1997

 

motherhood and memory: a review; 2001

 

eta: additionally, The Mommy Myth: The Idealization of Motherhood and How It Has Undermined All Women

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I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

I never said any such thing, and I don't believe any such thing.

I'm primarily responding to the suggestion that people who say they are happy to be parents are somehow deluded or lying, which I think is absurd.

As far as worrying about people who feel pressured into having babies - I talk to many women in that position all the time, and I encourage them not to do it if they are not ready, willing, and able.

 

deflecting negativity and exaggerating the better experiences, imo, can be a survival instinct. when you get hit by a sledge hammer(voluntarily), you wince, hide the pain and rave about the buzz.

 

i am not saying that we shouldnt procreate. it is, afterall, the prime impertive. breeding comes with it's costs. when one creates something, a part of the creator perishes....like a pod that bursts open to spew the spores and then ceasing to exist. i like to think of it like that anyways...now, this is essential for the preservation of our species. and some people would do it gladly, following their biological clocks and imprinted genetic impulses. i thank them. but it is still a choice. and those who make the choice have the right to be armed with knowledge and facts. and those who don't need not have to bad about their choices...

 

eta:

 

omnivorette said: With few exceptions, a female mammal who has a baby will posess the instinct to nurse that baby and care for that baby.

 

i am really glad god invented nipples and the evolutionary god cunningly invented oxytocin, the mammalian hormone that is released during nursing and orgasms. coincidence? i think not.

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...but i'd ask them to kindly shut the fuck up if they are spinning yarns to justify the cost of their choices.

 

You are granting yourself the most incredible luxury. The luxury to believe no one. After all, there's no need ever to engage in any rational and intelligent debate in a respectful and meaningful way if you just convince yourself that everyone that disagrees with you is lying about their experiences, beliefs and conclusions.

 

So it follows that if everyone that disagrees with you is simply lying, you certainly shouldn't bother to take their opinions seriously. And so you can never be wrong.

 

Amazing logic.

 

Truly.

 

You've built for yourself quite the protective fortress.

 

And I can't help but wonder what is the real reason why.

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Humans are mammals. With few exceptions, a female mammal who has a baby will posess the instinct to nurse that baby and care for that baby.

 

As far as your opinion that all parents who feel happy to be parents are actually deluded...I'm just glad I'm not your mother. :P

 

Humans simply don't exhibit species-wide behaviors at such high level. The existence of a global social meme, whether similar to what we find in aardvarks (e.g. nurturing behavior towards babies) or not (e.g. religion) does not mean that the majority of the population have a natural tendency/instinct towards that behavior, a pretty small minority is enough. So your "few exceptions" may be 10, 30, 90%, who knows? Also note that in many mammals adult males don't exhibit any such behavior and are more likely to eat the young ones than to care for them, not so much the case in humans anymore.

 

As for the second part, I'll avoid the obvious comeback. I'm perfectly willing to believe that some people enjoy that lifestyle more than the alternative, but I'm completely unwilling to believe so many of them would be plunging head first into it without the existing social biases/pressure. (and as discussed previously with m.san, increasingly they're not doing it)

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And as far as this brain shrinkage nonsense goes, and this notion that women become forgetful and lose their memories? Perhaps initially, because they're exhausted.

 

the brain shrinks(like in size?) and then grows back after a long time..post natal. stress is also known to kill brain cells. i wont go as far as saying that women become stupid after pregnancy and childbirth, but they certainly change...often irreversibly..making them less than what they used to be...

I agree women change after a child or two. I'm not sure this necessarily makes them "less" or "more." Have you got long term studies?

 

i can look it up. it came out sometime in the late 90s...1997 or 1998.

 

brain shrinks during pregnancy; 1997

 

motherhood and memory: a review; 2001

 

eta: additionally, The Mommy Myth: The Idealization of Motherhood and How It Has Undermined All Women

The 97 piece seems interesting but it speaks of a 6 month shrinkage. Couldn't open the 2001. Thanks, but I suspect there's something out there that is more definitive one way or the other.

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what *I* can declare without any reservations is my intense dislike of evangelisation of parenthood. i am happy if women can find happiness in their many roles. but i'd ask them to kindly shut the fuck up if they are spinning yarns to justify the cost of their choices.

 

How can you assume to know that almost all of my friends and family members who are mothers are lying about their experience?

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what *I* can declare without any reservations is my intense dislike of evangelisation of parenthood. i am happy if women can find happiness in their many roles. but i'd ask them to kindly shut the fuck up if they are spinning yarns to justify the cost of their choices.

 

How can you assume to know that almost all of my friends and family members who are mothers are lying about their experience?

At this point it seems we need an agreement to disagree. And what happened to Brad & Angelina?

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FB's position on this thread is really quite noxious-- she presents a truly extremist position as an attempt to correct non-existent propaganda (has anyone here said parenthood was easy?), and offers hatred of the "other" in the guise of rejecting intolerance of her own choices.

 

What surprises me is the number of people here who agree with her. It seems that Omni's well-intentioned support of people who wish to give birth has touched a real nerve, and opened up an enormous store of resentment that people here feel toward all parents as a group. The only expressions of intolerance I've seen on this thread have been directed at parents, or those who have the gall to think parenthood is rewarding. It makes me feel pretty unwelcome, and I'm hardly a rah-rah parenthood evangelist.

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