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the delusion occurs when jaymes decides that motherhood will be the most intensely joyous role of my life. now..a confidence trickster will go one step further and only highlight the 'joys' to recruit one more for team mommy.

 

That's quite helpful. I agree that member X (because we can't keep using Jaymes as the example) cannot "decide" what the circumstances of your feelings will be. I have agreed with that from page one. In fact, I think there's been a misunderstanding over semantics on that point.

 

However, isn't it obviously wrong, and for just the same reasons, for you to claim superior knowledge of what member X's feelings are (or imply that member X is delusional, or a confidence trickster).

 

Why doesn't it cut both ways?

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Neo: This... this isn't the Matrix?

Morpheus: No. It is another training program designed to teach you one thing: if you are not one of us, you are one of them.

Just how many times have you seen that movie?

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For all those that "can't feel" or refuse to feel or even care what anyone else is feeling, what do you do when you read a book or watch a film filled with emotion? Do you you just sit there and stare aimlessly?

 

i usually kick the seat of the person in front of me.

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That sounds like a definition of solipsism.

Oh, hot damn! Two big words in one thread. Now it's sol lip sizm. There's another one spelled with a "c" in the netherworld. Solipcism. Oh, wouldn't it be fun to allow religion here, too. Just think of how we could relate all this to "-isms" and reality vs whatever. And all the big time philosophers here could elucidate. Ooh, boy. And, yes, I suppose an intervention, scientifically and peer-reviewed, is awaiting efficacy in future literature. Couch not required. Only keyboard. Stranger things have been vetted.

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While one can try to imagine what another feels, I'm not sure we are 100% successful.

 

I am not sure what the criterion for percentage of success is, but - so long as we are not misled about what the feelings are (which is different) - I think we do pretty well imagining what it's like for the next person to be angry, sad, hurt, embarrassed, jealous, happy.... It's not so opaque, is it?

 

I am sure we could devise some kind of Turing test for this. Let's make that our project for April.

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For all those that "can't feel" or refuse to feel or even care what anyone else is feeling, what do you do when you read a book or watch a film filled with emotion? Do you you just sit there and stare aimlessly?

There are movies that I watch and cry over. What I'm arguing about is the idea that what I will feel emotional about, others must too.

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There are movies that I watch and cry over. What I'm arguing about is the idea that what I will feel emotional about, others must too.

 

Clearly not, although there will be much common ground too. I think part of the problem is that, in the early pages (okay, it was omni), no clear distinction was made between:

 

1. It's a matter of record that many people claim to feel X, and there's no reason to think that they're generally deluded or lying (true, IMO);

 

2. It's a fact that everyone in those circumstances will (or should) feel X (not true, ditto).

 

I am not sure which omni meant to say, although she often sounded like she was saying 2.

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What happened to empathy?

(not responding to Jaymes's previous post, but to those preceding it)

 

that's like asking someone if they feel empathy towards another who is consuming vast amounts of chocolate and ice cream while you yourself are allergic to fat, sugar and dairy.

 

on the other hand, the same person can feel empathy towards the chocolate ice cream lover when the latter comes down with an upset tummy or when they are upset over extra lbs.

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While one can try to imagine what another feels, I'm not sure we are 100% successful.

 

I am not sure what the criterion for percentage of success is, but - so long as we are not misled about what the feelings are (which is different) - I think we do pretty well imagining what it's like for the next person to be angry, sad, hurt, embarrassed, jealous, happy.... It's not so opaque, is it?

 

I am sure we could devise some kind of Turing test for this. Let's make that our project for April.

I think we project our own experience onto the other person's. It might concur to some extent, but it's the presumption that we 'know' what another's experience is like that I find troublesome. Matching a person's outward behavior to a feeling can be quite easy, but it's wise to remember, I think, my inner state when acting acting one way/speaking one way might be quite different from yours.

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