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What I'm arguing about is the idea that what I will feel emotional about, others must too.

I don't think anyone on this thread advocated that.

 

I assume we are still stuck on pages 2 and 3 (roughly) where omni said it was "abnormal" not to have certain feelings.

 

That and post 338

 

"While you might not feel bad about choosing not to have children, and while it might be the best choice for you, the fact is that if you do not have children, you will in fact miss out on one of life's most intense pleasures. That's not bad or good or right or wrong, it just is what it is."

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dear god, man...when i see a woman clutching a baby with smelly diapers and claim to be wallowing in intense joy, she is exhibiting signs of delusion. my feelings towards her are as real to me as her feelings are towards her baby. it does cut both ways, doesnt it?

 

 

unless she says that she loves the smell of poopy diapers i don't see what is delusional about it. i love my dogs and my love for them doesn't diminish while cleaning up their shit. i love them despite having to clean up their shit, which is presumably what women wallowing in joy while clutching babies with smelly diapers mean as well.

 

but you are delusional to those who dont care much about dogs. they simply wont 'get' you...they shouldnt have to...

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Definitions of normal and abnormal are different than saying that someone ought to feel certain emotions. In any case the vast bulk of the pro parenthood posts on this thread merely say that it can be a good thing for some people.

 

And my "pro parenthood posts on this thread" merely say that it was and remains a good thing for me.

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They have. But I remind you of several stories of the childless being chided for "selfishness".

 

do you then to explain to them that you incredible selfishness and childless status are merely correlated and not a causal relationship?

No, I just tell them about the cost and deliciousness of my last meal at Masa.

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What I'm arguing about is the idea that what I will feel emotional about, others must too.

I don't think anyone on this thread advocated that.

 

I assume we are still stuck on pages 2 and 3 (roughly) where omni said it was "abnormal" not to have certain feelings.

 

That and post 338

 

"While you might not feel bad about choosing not to have children, and while it might be the best choice for you, the fact is that if you do not have children, you will in fact miss out on one of life's most intense pleasures. That's not bad or good or right or wrong, it just is what it is."

 

I find reading about automorphic forms intensely pleasurable. Doesn't everyone?

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but if anyone thinks that my being happy per se is an imposition on them then well, they can go fuck themselves.

 

it is a different matter of course if my being happy expresses itself in some annoying, public manner.

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For all those that "can't feel" or refuse to feel or even care what anyone else is feeling, what do you do when you read a book or watch a film filled with emotion? Do you you just sit there and stare aimlessly?

 

it is difficult to extract joy as the message when one sees erosion of physical and mental faculties, loss of time/sleep/money, extreme dependence...not to mention other 'joyous' displays of poop, drool, farts..graduating to tantrums, yelling, slamming of doors, HUGE bills.

 

when you watch a movie where the hero dies bleeding(only a flesh wound) after being stabbed a couple of times by his friend, but with a huge grin and a shrill giggle on his face, what emotion grabs you as you register the scene?

 

So now you are comparing being stabbed with poop, drool, farts, lack of sleep, etc? Just because you can't understand how the pleasure of parenthood may be greater than the potential negatives is your problem, not the parents'.

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What I'm arguing about is the idea that what I will feel emotional about, others must too.

I don't think anyone on this thread advocated that.

 

I assume we are still stuck on pages 2 and 3 (roughly) where omni said it was "abnormal" not to have certain feelings.

 

That and post 338

 

"While you might not feel bad about choosing not to have children, and while it might be the best choice for you, the fact is that if you do not have children, you will in fact miss out on one of life's most intense pleasures. That's not bad or good or right or wrong, it just is what it is."

 

I find reading about automorphic forms intensely pleasurable. Doesn't everyone?

Pervert.

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They have. But I remind you of several stories of the childless being chided for "selfishness".

 

Where? On this thread? I've not seen them....

 

Because boy, I sure don't feel that way. If you're not absolutely positive you want to raise children, and I mean be "all in" for life, please don't have any. If you change your mind after they're here, or otherwise screw it up in some way, I and society, are the ones that have to pay.

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I think we project our own experience onto the other person's. It might concur to some extent, but it's the presumption that we 'know' what another's experience is like that I find troublesome. Matching a person's outward behavior to a feeling can be quite easy, but it's wise to remember, I think, my inner state when acting acting one way/speaking one way might be quite different from yours.

 

A classic problem, as you know. I am inclined to go with Wittgenstein's solution: just because one might be mistaken in any case, doesn't mean that one could always be mistaken. The whole idea of being mistaken is parasitic on the possibility of being right. And I think there's much circumstantial evidence that we are right a lot of the time.

I think J L Austin would say the same. But just because one can read that someone is happy, it does not follow that the experience of happiness is the same for 2 people.

 

But empathy is not what's at stake in this thread. It's someone's prediction that another will find pleasure on the basis that they/or someone else experienced pleasure in a certain circumstance.

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but if anyone thinks that my being happy per se is an imposition on them then well, they can go fuck themselves.

 

it is a different matter of course if my being happy expresses itself in some annoying, public manner.

 

this whole discussion has been very bizarre to me. i actually like children once they are past the drooling/smelly diaper phase.

 

i suppose this ends here?

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What I'm arguing about is the idea that what I will feel emotional about, others must too.

I don't think anyone on this thread advocated that.

 

I assume we are still stuck on pages 2 and 3 (roughly) where omni said it was "abnormal" not to have certain feelings.

 

That and post 338

 

"While you might not feel bad about choosing not to have children, and while it might be the best choice for you, the fact is that if you do not have children, you will in fact miss out on one of life's most intense pleasures. That's not bad or good or right or wrong, it just is what it is."

 

Well, no-one else believes that, do they? I mean no-one actually participating here?

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They have. But I remind you of several stories of the childless being chided for "selfishness".

 

Where? On this thread? I've not seen them....

 

Because boy, I sure don't feel that way. If you're not absolutely positive you want to raise children, and I mean be "all in" for life, please don't have any. If you change your mind after they're here, or otherwise screw it up in some way, I and society, are the ones that have to pay.

 

hmm..i hate to bring this up now, but it's actually the other way around. just like healthy people pay insurance premiums to pick up the costs of illnesses for sick people.

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