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No matter you consider them as leaders or not, they all did hold the office of president.

 

Carter graduated from a service academy--Annapolis--FYI.

 

i have to concede there. it was an unfortunate afterthought i added re the presidents bit.

 

how would you rate the public school system tho'?

Just for clarity:

 

Presidents since Truman that have attended public elementary or secondary schools (or both): Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Clinton. So, only the two Bush presidents did not have any public school.

 

Also, my comment that started this was unrelated to whether the school system works because that is another issue. The question is whether it benefits society or the parents to educate children. It is the way I answer that question that determines if I'm ok funding schools with my tax money.

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No matter you consider them as leaders or not, they all did hold the office of president.

 

Carter graduated from a service academy--Annapolis--FYI.

i have to concede there. it was an unfortunate afterthought i added re the presidents bit.

 

how would you rate the public school system tho'?

Life is too short for me to spend any of it engaging you on that question.
yes, i kinda figured that. unfortunately, that seems to be the case for many many people too.

 

Hey, I've "engaged" you. You didn't seem to like that much, either. :blink:

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No matter you consider them as leaders or not, they all did hold the office of president.

 

Carter graduated from a service academy--Annapolis--FYI.

 

i have to concede there. it was an unfortunate afterthought i added re the presidents bit.

 

how would you rate the public school system tho'?

Just for clarity:

 

Presidents since Truman that have attended public elementary or secondary schools (or both): Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Clinton. So, only the two Bush presidents did not have any public school.

 

Also, my comment that started this was unrelated to whether the school system works because that is another issue. The question is whether it benefits society or the parents to educate children. It is the way I answer that question that determines if I'm ok funding schools with my tax money.

 

SLB, i agree that my comment re presidents was off mark.

 

the point is whether or not the public school system is working. when one picks a school(and private schools shouldnt be expensive if there are more of them about) where one can pick and choose what the child learns, one is able to do justice to the child's education.

 

here is what i know and correct me if i am wrong:

 

1. one cannot select school district. it is tied to the residential area. what if the school is not upto mark?

 

2. distressing reports about the failing school system because of lack of funds. someone told me recently that east palo alto does not have a public school after their school was burned down by the students.

 

3. a reported lack of math and science aptitude amongst majority of the school children

 

4. "intelligent design"

 

5. high school recruiting for the military from schools under 'no child left behind act'.

 

6. reports of drugs and weapons.

 

alternative charter schools spends less money and is able to provide a more well rounded education. so it is not about the allocation/availability of funds..rather it is about how it is used. a public school needs to please everyone and in the process, it does lower it's standards to suit everyone.

 

i am adding a link here.

 

To give you an idea of how competitive American schools are and how U.S. students performed compared with their European counterparts, we gave parts of an international test to some high school students in Belgium and in New Jersey.

 

Belgian kids cleaned the American kids' clocks, and called them "stupid."

 

We didn't pick smart kids to test in Europe and dumb kids in the United States. The American students attend an above-average school in New Jersey, and New Jersey's kids have test scores that are above average for America.

 

Lov Patel, the boy who got the highest score among the American students, told me, "I'm shocked, because it just shows how advanced they are compared to us."

 

The Belgian students didn't perform better because they're smarter than American students. They performed better because their schools are better. At age 10, American students take an international test and score well above the international average. But by age 15, when students from 40 countries are tested, the Americans place 25th.

 

American schools don't teach as well as schools in other countries because they are government monopolies, and monopolies don't have much incentive to compete. In Belgium, by contrast, the money is attached to the kids — it's a kind of voucher system. Government funds education — at many different kinds of schools — but if a school can't attract students, it goes out of business.

 

Belgian school principal Kaat Vandensavel told us she works hard to impress parents.

 

She told us, "If we don't offer them what they want for their child, they won't come to our school." She constantly improves the teaching, saying, "You can't afford 10 teachers out of 160 that don't do their work, because the clients will know, and won't come to you again."

 

"That's normal in Western Europe," Harvard economist Caroline Hoxby told me. "If schools don't perform well, a parent would never be trapped in that school in the same way you could be trapped in the U.S."

 

Last week Florida's Supreme Court shut down "opportunity scholarships," Florida's small attempt at competition. Public money can't be spent on private schools, said the court, because the state constitution commands the funding only of "uniform . . . high-quality" schools. Government schools are neither uniform nor high-quality, and without competition, no new teaching plan or No Child Left Behind law will get the monopoly to serve its customers well.

 

The longer kids stay in American schools, the worse they do in international competition. They do worse than kids from poorer countries that spend much less money on education, ranking behind not only Belgium but also Poland, the Czech Republic and South Korea.

 

This should come as no surprise if you remember that public education in the United States is a government monopoly. Don't like your public school? Tough. The school is terrible? Tough. Your taxes fund that school regardless of whether it's good or bad. That's why government monopolies routinely fail their customers. Union-dominated monopolies are even worse.

 

In New York City, it's "just about impossible" to fire a bad teacher, says Schools Chancellor Joel Klein. The new union contract offers some relief, but it's still about 200 pages of bureaucracy. "We tolerate mediocrity," said Klein, because "people get paid the same, whether they're outstanding, average or way below average."

 

Here's just one example from New York City: It took years to fire a teacher who sent sexually oriented e-mails to "Cutie 101," a 16-year-old student. Klein said, "He hasn't taught, but we have had to pay him, because that's what's required under the contract."

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SLB, i agree that my comment re presidents was off mark.

 

the point is whether or not the public school system is working. when one picks a school(and private schools shouldnt be expensive if there are more of them about) where one can pick and choose what the child learns, one is able to do justice to the child's education.

 

here is what i know and correct me if i am wrong:

 

1. one cannot select school district. it is tied to the residential area. what if the school is not upto mark?

 

2. distressing reports about the failing school system because of lack of funds. someone told me recently that east palo alto does not have a public school after their school was burned down by the students.

 

3. a reported lack of math and science aptitude amongst majority of the school children

 

4. "intelligent design"

 

5. high school recruiting for the military from schools under 'no child left behind act'.

 

6. reports of drugs and weapons.

 

alternative charter schools spends less money and is able to provide a more well rounded education. so it is not about the allocation/availability of funds..rather it is about how it is used. a public school needs to please everyone and in the process, it does lower it's standards to suit everyone.

Actually, your original comment that prompted my reply had nothing to do with the success of the school system. It was simply that you didn't feel like people should have to pay for the education of children who are not their own. I disagreed.

 

The public school system in many places in the US is not great. I agree. I really don't think it has anything to do with "intelligent design" or the military recruiting from schools. The fact that a specific charter school spends less money to provide a better education is a sign of a school system that pays too much for administration.

 

It is a very complicated topic that probably has some universals but I'm not sure that the problems with the Minneapolis school district (in the news here recently) have much to do with the problems of the school system in Plains, GA (Jimmy Carter's alma mater).

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i find jaymes' obsession with me dying alone in the woods rather disturbing.

Jaymes didn't say that. You and the squirrels and butterflies and birds will be run over by the logging trucks and "affordable" housing mandates for illegal immigrants. Logs go to Japan. You will just be a useless burden now that you are collecting social security instead of contributing. All this pratter about the next generation is moot. America as we knew it is over, folks. It's Hugo Chavez's country now. California's schools are now 99% minority, 67% hispanics. White flight has flown and is not replicating. The subject of public schooling cannot go any further without delving into both politics and religion.

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Actually, your original comment that prompted my reply had nothing to do with the success of the school system. It was simply that you didn't feel like people should have to pay for the education of children who are not their own. I disagreed.

 

The public school system in many places in the US is not great. I agree. I really don't think it has anything to do with "intelligent design" or the military recruiting from schools.

 

but people should have a choice not to send their kids to a place where they recruit them for the military, no? if i feel that my tax dollars are going to fund something that is a plucking ground for young people in their prime to be sent off to war, shouldnt i have a say in it? even if i dont have children.

 

The fact that a specific charter school spends less money to provide a better education is a sign of a school system that pays too much for administration.

 

indeed. when something expands beyond a particular point, it fails to control itself effectively.

 

It is a very complicated topic that probably has some universals but I'm not sure that the problems with the Minneapolis school district (in the news here recently) have much to do with the problems of the school system in Plains, GA (Jimmy Carter's alma mater).

 

all i am saying is that you get what you pay for...if it were me, i would think that my child would be at the mercy of another's mediocrity in a public school. any group is only as strong as it's weakest link. just my opinion.

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i find jaymes' obsession with me dying alone in the woods rather disturbing.

Jaymes didn't say that.

 

i could highlight the repetitive bits. but frankly, i dont care.

 

You and the squirrels and butterflies and birds will be run over by the logging trucks and "affordable" housing mandates for illegal immigrants. Logs go to Japan. You will just be a useless burden now that you are collecting social security instead of contributing. All this pratter about the next generation is moot. America as we knew it is over, folks. It's Hugo Chavez's country now. California's schools are now 99% minority, 67% hispanics. White flight has flown and is not replicating. The subject of public schooling cannot go any further without delving into both politics and religion.

 

i agree with the last sentence. i think i will drop it here.

 

but relatedly, childless citizens pay for the education of those with children. we bear a social cost. and it is my observation that the social cost isnt justified given that the public school system is failing for most parts even though there are success stories here and there.

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i find jaymes' obsession with me dying alone in the woods rather disturbing.

Jaymes didn't say that. You and the squirrels and butterflies and birds will be run over by the logging trucks and "affordable" housing mandates for illegal immigrants. Logs go to Japan. You will just be a useless burden now that you are collecting social security instead of contributing. All this pratter about the next generation is moot. America as we knew it is over, folks. It's Hugo Chavez's country now. California's schools are now 99% minority, 67% hispanics. White flight has flown and is not replicating. The subject of public schooling cannot go any further without delving into both politics and religion.

... and apparently, a bit of racism too.

 

BTW, "99% minority" is an oxymoron.

And "America as we knew it is over, folks. It's Hugo Chavez's country now." They said the same thing about the Irish and Italians in the 1890's and Eastern Europeans, mostly Jews, in the 1910's. America is immigrants and no one should forget it.

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any group is only as strong as it's weakest link. just my opinion.
Let's hope not.

 

Actually, experts in the behavioral science fields have pm'd me to tell me I'm wasting my time here in this thread (although of course, being experts, they put it in much more colorful terms), so I'm going to make every concerted effort to abandon it.

 

I've tried previously, and it hasn't gone well.

 

I'm bending the "no religion" rule to beg each of you that actually has a religion to please say a prayer to whichever deity you honor to give me strength.

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And "America as we knew it is over, folks. It's Hugo Chavez's country now." They said the same thing about the Irish and Italians in the 1890's and Eastern Europeans, mostly Jews, in the 1910's.

Throw them all out. America for the English, says I.

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