Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Even with some quick internet researching, I've failed to find any mass school shootings conducted by women. Quite a few stabbings of a single rival, and a few shootings, but no mass killings of other people.

With one exception all of the killings done by Charles Manson's followers were done by women. Even after they were jailed they remained loyal to him to an amazing degree, as did those who were still at large. Squeaky Fromme even tried to assasinate Gerald Ford as a twisted form of protest.

 

Men don't have a monopoly on weirdness.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 183
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Even with some quick internet researching, I've failed to find any mass school shootings conducted by women. Quite a few stabbings of a single rival, and a few shootings, but no mass killings of other people.

With one exception all of the killings done by Charles Manson's followers were done by women. Even after they were jailed they remained loyal to him to an amazing degree, as did those who were still at large. Squeaky Fromme even tried to assasinate Gerald Ford as a twisted form of protest.

 

Men don't have a monopoly on weirdness.

 

 

No mass school killings, though. Or workplace shootouts.

 

Women kill lots of people (including their own kids), one on one, or one on two or three. But not one on 30 or 32, or Columbine-style, or the school in Oregon. Cumulatively, Bonnie Parker probably killed three dozen people, but is she a mass murderess?

 

ETA;

 

Here's a situation where the authorities seem to have acted appropriately.

 

This college student was arrested while he was assembling an assault rifle. He also had a large stash of ammo.

 

ROCHESTER, N.Y. -- A Rochester Institute of Technology student was arrested Wednesday and suspended from classes after authorities discovered he had two assault rifles and hundreds of rounds of ammunition a day after the deadliest school shooting in U.S. history.

 

Jonathan Hackenburg, a 22-year-old engineering senior from Hackettstown, N.J., told Monroe County sheriff's deputies and campus safety officials he had a valid federal firearms license and purchased the weapons, a STAG-15 and another model similar to that used by U.S. military personnel, in his home state.

 

Deputies recovered the rifles, which Hackenburg said he had just assembled, from his dorm room but did not find ammunition there, said RIT spokesman Robert Finnerty. Deputies later found more than 200 rounds of ammunition and four, 30-round magazines in his car, according to the Sheriff's Office.

 

 

AP Wire

Edited by Rail Paul
Link to post
Share on other sites

No mass school killings, though. Or workplace shootouts.

 

url=http://www.dailyrecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070419/UPDATES01/704190402]AP Wire[/url]

We had a workplace shootout a couple of blocks from here last year by a former postal worker, she shot 6 people to death. But I can't remember women as a rule committing random acts of violence. We get more specific.

Link to post
Share on other sites

In other words, what bothers me is that the way we seem to deal with the mentally ill is to punish them after they commit the act (and tack on a bunch of political agendas for good measure), rather than put in place measures that prevent those actions with necessary attention ahead of time. There were all sorts of warning signs with this kid, apparently, and not just of the vague "loner/misfit" type.

 

The laws in the US have consistently expanded the rights of the mentally ill to be free of unwanted medical intervention and interference.

Thinking about this some more, given that men do not have the market on mental illness here, the school shooting scenarios are always by males, no? So it's obviously something more than mental illness at play, and the cultural way men act out when they are disturbed vs. disturbed women.

 

The types of mental illness that are common to men and women are different. For example, schizophrenia is far more common in men, whereas (duh), postpartum depression is only going to show up in women. But I should think socialization plays some role too.

 

Ugh, it was weird -- I just got back from proctoring an exam. Last tuesday when I was lecturing I was too busy to think much, but today I caught myself thinking about what I would do if my students were in danger. Our doors open into the hallway so they can't be barricaded. It's scary to think about.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent point, Leslie. Also, Wilf, cruising through your posting it says, "Mental illness plays no part in the majority crimes committed in our society." Well, that's the Canadian view, anyway. But that would logically rule out psychotic behavior as an initial primary cause and give more credibility to bad parenting and video games! Right? Am I the only person who felt the angst in Chou's video? He was screaming his pain and rage. Violence was his recourse/revenge. Whereforth cometh such pain and rage? Everybody is talking around what he did but they still are not listening to him. Remember a while back the man who unfurled a banner over a LA freeway bridge then shot his dog and himself? The media stumbled all over itself to add a 5 second delay so they could stop things like this from being shown "live." Whole point missed. What did his banner say? What message did he sacrifice his life for? Anyone remember? Anyone care?

 

A few cross-wires.

 

If, as seems highly likely (although it can no longer be confirmed), that the "perp" was suffering from a mental illness such as psychosis, there's no compelling reason to think it was caused by bad parenting or video-games: these are not generally listed as major causes of psychosis. What's more, if he was suffering from an illness, there seems to be only very limited value - if any - in trying to detect reasonable external causes for his pain/rage/suffering.

 

Of course, bad parenting and video games may nonetheless be the cause of violent crime. Who knows? But that's different than being the cause of psychosis.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course, bad parenting and video games may nonetheless be the cause of violent crime. Who knows? But that's different than being the cause of psychosis.

It just seems that with the right meds he could have coped and this would have been prevented. Of course, if he stopped taking the meds....

Link to post
Share on other sites
Even with some quick internet researching, I've failed to find any mass school shootings conducted by women. Quite a few stabbings of a single rival, and a few shootings, but no mass killings of other people.

Andrea Yates. Aileen Wuornos.

From Wiki:

 

"16-year-old Brenda Ann Spencer opened fire at Cleveland Elementary School. She wounded eight children and one police officer and killed two adults"

 

"30-year-old Laurie Dann walked into a second grade classroom at Hubbard Woods Elementary School carrying three pistols and began shooting children, killing eight-year-old Nicholas Corwin and wounding five others before fleeing"

 

"In the Hetzel Union Building shooting at The Pennsylvania State University, 19 year old Jillian Robbins opened fire on students walking to classes, killing one student and wounding another"

 

But I suspect the sample is too small statistically to be able to predict ratio of male to female in a large population of such perpetrators.

Link to post
Share on other sites

When it comes to school settings it seems the "danger" posed by women is from horny teachers hooking up with male students. If there were a way to link up the teachers with the violent males, maybe they could make love, not war.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent point, Leslie. Also, Wilf, cruising through your posting it says, "Mental illness plays no part in the majority crimes committed in our society." Well, that's the Canadian view, anyway. But that would logically rule out psychotic behavior as an initial primary cause and give more credibility to bad parenting and video games! Right? Am I the only person who felt the angst in Chou's video? He was screaming his pain and rage. Violence was his recourse/revenge. Whereforth cometh such pain and rage? Everybody is talking around what he did but they still are not listening to him. Remember a while back the man who unfurled a banner over a LA freeway bridge then shot his dog and himself? The media stumbled all over itself to add a 5 second delay so they could stop things like this from being shown "live." Whole point missed. What did his banner say? What message did he sacrifice his life for? Anyone remember? Anyone care?

 

The key word is "majority" (of crimes). The mentally ill do not as a group account for the majority of perpetrators of crimes. See here for example.. At the same time, that does not negate the fact that when a person is actively psychotic they might be prone to violence. (But, again, not all mentally ill are psychotic.)

 

As for blaming parents, psychiatrists (Lidz, Bowen), anthropologists (Bateson) and others (Bettelheim) caused a great deal of suffering for parents by arguing it was the parents' (usually mother's) fault that the child was mentally ill or autistic. Judith Rich Harris has put forth several arguments based on research that contest the nurturing argument. Genetics--well that's another matter.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Even with some quick internet researching, I've failed to find any mass school shootings conducted by women. Quite a few stabbings of a single rival, and a few shootings, but no mass killings of other people.

Andrea Yates. Aileen Wuornos.

From Wiki:

 

"16-year-old Brenda Ann Spencer opened fire at Cleveland Elementary School. She wounded eight children and one police officer and killed two adults"

 

"30-year-old Laurie Dann walked into a second grade classroom at Hubbard Woods Elementary School carrying three pistols and began shooting children, killing eight-year-old Nicholas Corwin and wounding five others before fleeing"

 

"In the Hetzel Union Building shooting at The Pennsylvania State University, 19 year old Jillian Robbins opened fire on students walking to classes, killing one student and wounding another"

 

But I suspect the sample is too small statistically to be able to predict ratio of male to female in a large population of such perpetrators.

 

Agreed.

 

Still looking at one on one or one on two or three. None of the mass killing that's so horrifying.

 

I don't think women have been involved in the mass killings / pogroms in the past 150 years, with the possible exception of Rwanda. They weren't involved in the Tulsa attacks, or Rosewood, Kinshasa, or the multiple killing fields of Cambodia, Timor, or Indonesia, etc.

Link to post
Share on other sites

A few cross-wires.

 

Of course, bad parenting and video games may nonetheless be the cause of violent crime. Who knows? But that's different than being the cause of psychosis.

Good point. Need to agree on the definition of mental illness. One nature and other is nurture? One is chemically alterable the other isn't?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Both nature and nurture. A genetic predisposition plus triggering factors. The most convicing data come from concordance studies in twins. If one twin is schizophrenic, the chance that an identical twin is also schizophrenic is 30-40%. The chance that a fraternal (i.e., not genetically identical twin) is also schizophrenic is 5-10%. Similar figures exist for depression.

 

If it were purely nurture, concordance would be equal in identical and fraternal twins. If it were purely nature concordance would be 100% in identical twins.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Except that all identical twins I personally know are mirror images of each other. One left handed, one right. One creative, one mechanical. So you would have same DNA but not proclivities of right brain left brain, right?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...