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Smoking ban


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Of course, every work environment is "unsafe" in the strictest sense of the term. That's not the legal test. What is the legal test? Damned if I can remember. But yes, I think your instinct is right. Deep sea fishing involves boats and hooks and lines and all kinds of iffy stuff, which is why fishermen are all missing fingers and eyes. Serving drinks does not involve inhaling someone else's smoke.

It's the small boat bit that I was thinking about. Fishing from factory ships is a lot safer. Would the government be justified in insisting that all fishing boats be a minimum size?

 

Perhaps it's just a question of the balance of costs and benefits. Although banning small boats would save a lot of lives, the economic costs are high (and the quality of fish would suffer). Even though banning smoking may have negligible health benefits, there are few if any costs.

 

But I do have some sympathy with the libertarian view: If you're worried about drowning, don't become a fisherman; if you're worried about second hand smoke, don't become a barman.

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But cigarettes are not an integral part of drinking or serving at a bar. Being on a boat is an integral part of deep sea fishing.

 

In other words - you can easily separate smoking from a bar and still have a bar. You cannot separate the boat from deep sea fishing and still catch fish.

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But cigarettes are not an integral part of drinking or serving at a bar. Being on a boat is an integral part of deep sea fishing.

 

In other words - you can easily separate smoking from a bar and still have a bar. You cannot separate the boat from deep sea fishing and still catch fish.

Perhaps we cross posted. Being on a small boat (which is the really dangerous bit) is not a necessary part of fishing.

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But cigarettes are not an integral part of drinking or serving at a bar. Being on a boat is an integral part of deep sea fishing.

 

In other words - you can easily separate smoking from a bar and still have a bar. You cannot separate the boat from deep sea fishing and still catch fish.

Perhaps we cross posted. Being on a small boat (which is the really dangerous bit) is not a necessary part of fishing.

 

It is if you don't have a big boat.

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Do you think if the smoking ban were lifted in NY, all of the bars/restaurants would go back to smoking? If they did not, servers could choose whether to work in a smokey joint, or a prim place.

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But cigarettes are not an integral part of drinking or serving at a bar. Being on a boat is an integral part of deep sea fishing.

 

In other words - you can easily separate smoking from a bar and still have a bar. You cannot separate the boat from deep sea fishing and still catch fish.

Perhaps we cross posted. Being on a small boat (which is the really dangerous bit) is not a necessary part of fishing.

 

It is if you don't have a big boat.

I think I covered that, at least by implication.

Perhaps it's just a question of the balance of costs and benefits. Although banning small boats would save a lot of lives, the economic costs are high (and the quality of fish would suffer).
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But cigarettes are not an integral part of drinking or serving at a bar. Being on a boat is an integral part of deep sea fishing.

 

In other words - you can easily separate smoking from a bar and still have a bar. You cannot separate the boat from deep sea fishing and still catch fish.

Perhaps we cross posted. Being on a small boat (which is the really dangerous bit) is not a necessary part of fishing.

No, but being in some kind of boat is (I assume), and all boats are inherently dangerous. The law does not require fishing operations to provide non-boat environments for its staff, just as the law doesn't require that all workplaces be on the ground floor in case the elevators break down. No work environments are completely safe, nor are they required to be. Factories may not be fume free, but the law regulates the fumes to which workers are exposed.

 

None of this has anything to do with the smoking case, because that hazard (if it is one in this context) is nothing to do with the business, the process, or anything else.

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Do you think if the smoking ban were lifted in NY, all of the bars/restaurants would go back to smoking? If they did not, servers could choose whether to work in a smokey joint, or a prim place.

 

 

Thats the only problem.. People dont want to give people choices, they want a total ban. I think its more of an attack on the horrible disgusting monsters at "big tabacco"..

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Do you think if the smoking ban were lifted in NY, all of the bars/restaurants would go back to smoking? If they did not, servers could choose whether to work in a smokey joint, or a prim place.

 

 

Thats the only problem.. People dont want to give people choices, they want a total ban. I think its more of an attack on the horrible disgusting monsters at "big tabacco"..

Well, at first, all bars and restaurants had smoking. Consumers didn't have a choice, and there was no realistic way for consumers to get any one bar to offer a smoke-free environment. After a few years of the ban, I think the bar owners may conclude that even if the ban were lifted, they would be better off maintaining the smoke free environment.

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You may be right, of course, but I would bet my money the other way. Since so many bar staff are smokers, and so many were opposed to the ban, and they'd rather have customers inside smoking and tipping, I really think we'd go back to the pre-ban status quo. Perhaps with a smattering of non-smoking options.

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I'm against them too, but according to the ludicrous voting with your $s theory, we should have had thousands of non-smoking bars in nyc all along.

 

I am really surprised no one did this.. I have heard on the net all these people say they didnt go to certain bars or restaurant because they did not allow smoking.. But no one stepped up a had a non smoking bar.. It was strange..

 

People are strange that way. Stone's question is interesting - if they made this a 3 month ban and then lifted it, what do you think would happen?

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