Doctors and the Medical Profession

[Melonious Thunk]

I think, when I think, that modern medicine is, all things taken into consideration, positive for our health. I only think about the average length of life through the years. It has grown longer, no? I bet that medical advances have something to with it.

 

No. Not in the least. The greatest advances in human health come from three factors: improved sanitation, improved nutrition, ability to fight infection with anti-biotics. Everything else is a decimal point on the scale of contribution to longevity and prevention of disease. None of these is connected to "modern medicine" or "medical advances" per se. Antibiotics were a scientific/laboratory discovery, not a medical creation. Sanitation is a product of urban planning and improved nutrition is a product of the system of food production, distribution and preservation (refrigeration, freezing, packaging, transportation).

 

Medicine has made very little impact in terms of curing any disease.

[Liza]

Well, modern medicine saved my life. I think that counts.

[Rail Paul]

As I posted earlier, at least 200,000 people die from mistakes in treatment in hospitals every year. 200,000 and that is believed to be an underestimate. This has been happening for more than 15 years. I saw such figures over 12 years ago. That comes to more than 3 million people-dead, due to treatment errors. Imagine if fifteen jumbo jets crashed daily each with 300 deaths, all due to pilot error. How long would it be before something were done to stop and fix the problem. Why is nothing being done about this?

That quote about jumbo jets, where does it come from?

 

I didn't make the original post, but I'd guess that it's a calculation using an average number of passengers on a specified number of flights to come up with the same number as people who are believed to be killed in hospital errors.

 

Sometimes making an incomprehensible number more comprehensible helps people to grasp the magnitude.

 

[SLBunge]

No. Not in the least. The greatest advances in human health come from three factors: improved sanitation, improved nutrition, ability to fight infection with anti-biotics. Everything else is a decimal point on the scale of contribution to longevity and prevention of disease. None of these is connected to "modern medicine" or "medical advances" per se. Antibiotics were a scientific/laboratory discovery, not a medical creation. Sanitation is a product of urban planning and improved nutrition is a product of the system of food production, distribution and preservation (refrigeration, freezing, packaging, transportation).

 

Medicine has made very little impact in terms of curing any disease.

Seems like an odd claim that because antibiotics were discovered in a laboratory they have nothing to do with medicine?

[Miguel Gierbolini]

I think, when I think, that modern medicine is, all things taken into consideration, positive for our health. I only think about the average length of life through the years. It has grown longer, no? I bet that medical advances have something to with it.

 

No. Not in the least. The greatest advances in human health come from three factors: improved sanitation, improved nutrition, ability to fight infection with anti-biotics. Everything else is a decimal point on the scale of contribution to longevity and prevention of disease. None of these is connected to "modern medicine" or "medical advances" per se. Antibiotics were a scientific/laboratory discovery, not a medical creation. Sanitation is a product of urban planning and improved nutrition is a product of the system of food production, distribution and preservation (refrigeration, freezing, packaging, transportation).

 

Medicine has made very little impact in terms of curing any disease.

 

I disagree. Where is Doctor GJ when I need him? Mel I don't know what happenned to you, but you are wrong. I think that after zillions of studies, it has been proved that people that take drugs to remedy an ailment, feel better and are better because of the drug they take than those that do not take it.

 

Saying what you are saying, would mean that all we needed to do was to wash our hands, eat whatever is healthy and take antibiotics and then we could not do anything else to improve our health situation. If I do this, I would never catch a cancer or HIV. Moreover if I am who I am, I am wasting my time taking drugs for my blood pressure. So, if I tell you that within one day, my blood pressure decreases to an acceptable level when taking the blood pressure medicine after not taking it for a few days, your position would be that undoubtedly I would have reach the same result if I diet? or clean myself?

 

This does not work for me. I can't believe that so many people, with so many manners of thinking and learning, would all be wrong in their belief that medicine is useful. That their experience in feeling better after taking drugs to relieve their ailments is imaginary or a factor of their nutritional and sanitational condition. And more still, it is incomprehensible that all of these sufferers of diseases are feeling better only because some power of suggestion since if you are not improving your nutrition, and not improving the sanitation around your food and you are not taking antibiotics, there would not be anyway that you could feel better.

 

I just can't believe that after hundreds of years of research and serious thought about such medical matters, the end result would be complete failure to cure despite clear evidence that we have know better weapons to fight diseases.

 

And HIV Mel, there is a lot of evidence that those affliced with HIV, due to new cocktails are living longer since the 1990's than

those infected when the disease commenced in the 1980's. Saying that medicine had very little impact in curing any diseace ignores the fact that million of HIV infected patients live longer now than when the epidemic started.

 

Growing older, the one thing that has impressed me about life, that has shocked me, is the incredulity of many in regards to the value of medical research. Something I don't see in other professions. It is an absurd that I wish I could understand a bit better since there are so many spousing such an incorrect conclusion.

[ranitidine]

So this is the thread where we rant about doctors? Goody.

 

My doctor couldn't even cure the flu I had the other week. He told me to stay in bed and drink "fluids." I could have thought of that, dumbass! Give me a pill or something!

 

He was right, Seth. Virus-caused illnesses are not curable, only preventable. They go away by themselves or they kill you.

 

[ranitidine]

I love all of this "hedge fund manager" business, as if every "hedge fund manager" is swimming in money.

 

Name one who's not.

 

[mongo_jones]

So this is the thread where we rant about doctors? Goody.

 

My doctor couldn't even cure the flu I had the other week. He told me to stay in bed and drink "fluids." I could have thought of that, dumbass! Give me a pill or something!

 

He was right, Seth. Virus-caused illnesses are not curable, only preventable. They go away by themselves or they kill you.

 

which is itself a cure. for this disease we call life!!!!

 

 

[ranitidine]

I think, when I think, that modern medicine is, all things taken into consideration, positive for our health. I only think about the average length of life through the years. It has grown longer, no? I bet that medical advances have something to with it.

 

No. Not in the least. The greatest advances in human health come from three factors: improved sanitation, improved nutrition, ability to fight infection with anti-biotics. Everything else is a decimal point on the scale of contribution to longevity and prevention of disease. None of these is connected to "modern medicine" or "medical advances" per se. Antibiotics were a scientific/laboratory discovery, not a medical creation. Sanitation is a product of urban planning and improved nutrition is a product of the system of food production, distribution and preservation (refrigeration, freezing, packaging, transportation).

 

Medicine has made very little impact in terms of curing any disease.

 

I disagree. Where is Doctor GJ when I need him? Mel I don't know what happenned to you, but you are wrong. I think that after zillions of studies, it has been proved that people that take drugs to remedy an ailment, feel better and are better because of the drug they take than those that do not take it.

 

Saying what you are saying, would mean that all we needed to do was to wash our hands, eat whatever is healthy and take antibiotics and then we could not do anything else to improve our health situation. If I do this, I would never catch a cancer or HIV. Moreover if I am who I am, I am wasting my time taking drugs for my blood pressure. So, if I tell you that within one day, my blood pressure decreases to an acceptable level when taking the blood pressure medicine after not taking it for a few days, your position would be that undoubtedly I would have reach the same result if I diet? or clean myself?

 

This does not work for me. I can't believe that so many people, with so many manners of thinking and learning, would all be wrong in their belief that medicine is useful. That their experience in feeling better after taking drugs to relieve their ailments is imaginary or a factor of their nutritional and sanitational condition. And more still, it is incomprehensible that all of these sufferers of diseases are feeling better only because some power of suggestion since if you are not improving your nutrition, and not improving the sanitation around your food and you are not taking antibiotics, there would not be anyway that you could feel better.

 

I just can't believe that after hundreds of years of research and serious thought about such medical matters, the end result would be complete failure to cure despite clear evidence that we have know better weapons to fight diseases.

 

And HIV Mel, there is a lot of evidence that those affliced with HIV, due to new cocktails are living longer since the 1990's than

those infected when the disease commenced in the 1980's. Saying that medicine had very little impact in curing any diseace ignores the fact that million of HIV infected patients live longer now than when the epidemic started.

 

Growing older, the one thing that has impressed me about life, that has shocked me, is the incredulity of many in regards to the value of medical research. Something I don't see in other professions. It is an absurd that I wish I could understand a bit better since there are so many spousing such an incorrect conclusion.

 

 

MT is correct about the biggest jumps in life expectancy. The elimination ofcontagious, fatal childhood diseases is the major reason. But the increasing number of people living to very old ages does have something to do with new drugs (e.g. statins) open-heart surgery, hip replacements, etc. It is possible to slow the deterioration of old age more effectively than it used to be. However, it still helps to choose the right parents for yourself.

[Melonious Thunk]

MT is correct about the biggest jumps in life expectancy. The elimination ofcontagious, fatal childhood diseases is the major reason. But the increasing number of people living to very old ages does have something to do with new drugs (e.g. statins) open-heart surgery, hip replacements, etc. It is possible to slow the deterioration of old age more effectively than it used to be. However, it still helps to choose the right parents for yourself.

 

Thank you. R. The points of joint replacement, bi-pass surgery, statins is well taken. My life has been improved by huge degree from the double knee replacement. But my post referred to the order of magnitude improvements in life expectancy. There are lots of anecdotal cases of lives saved and people helped by medicine. But the number killed from iatrogenic disease is huge. 2-300,000 a year is not a figure to be balanced against benefits of medicine in order to justify the benefits of "modern medicine."

 

[Miguel Gierbolini]

The elimination ofcontagious, fatal childhood diseases is the major reason

.

 

and this was done how? By washing our forks? I don't think guys.

[Melonious Thunk]

A definitive review and close reading of medical peer-review journals, and government health statistics shows that American medicine frequently causes more harm than good. The number of people having in-hospital, adverse drug reactions (ADR) to prescribed medicine is 2.2 million.1 Dr. Richard Besser, of the CDC, in 1995, said the number of unnecessary antibiotics prescribed annually for viral infections was 20 million. Dr. Besser, in 2003, now refers to tens of millions of unnecessary antibiotics. The number of unnecessary medical and surgical procedures performed annually is 7.5 million.3 The number of people exposed to unnecessary hospitalization annually is 8.9 million.4 The total number of iatrogenic deaths shown in the following table is 783,936. It is evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the United States. The 2001 heart disease annual death rate is 699,697; the annual cancer death rate, 553,251.5. As few as 5 percent and only up to 20 percent of iatrogenic acts are ever reported.16,24,25,33,34 This implies that if medical errors were completely and accurately reported, we would have a much higher annual iatrogenic death rate than 783,936. Dr. Leape, in 1994, said his figure of 180,000 medical mistakes annually was equivalent to three jumbo-jet crashes every two days.16 Our report shows that six jumbo jets are falling out of the sky each and every day. Gary Null PhD, Carolyn Dean MD ND, Martin Feldman MD, Debora Rasio MD, Dorothy Smith PhD more

 

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/ama.htm

 

However you want to slice it, there is a huge problem in our medical system, and pointing to the good cannot excuse or validate the harm. Fact is too many people make too much money to allow our system to make the kinds of regulations and controls that would correct this. Imagine of 100,000 people died every year from processed meats. How long would it take for something to be done?

 

[Melonious Thunk]

The elimination ofcontagious, fatal childhood diseases is the major reason

.

 

and this was done how? By washing our forks? I don't think guys.

 

I suggest you read some history of the effects of sanitation on the elimination of diseases that kill people by the tens of millions. Typhus, maleria, dysentery, various plagues, etc. etc. Fecal contamination kills today when sewage treatment is faulty or cleanliness in food processing fails. Washing and cleaning is part of sanitation, as is waste treatment. You look at third world countries, import 10,000 doctors vs. installing waste treatment and clean water and see which produces the biggest drop in death rates.

[Melonious Thunk]

Of course, who am I to deny that medical treatment can help?

 

BUFFALO, N.Y. -- Florida Panthers forward Richard Zednik lost five units of blood, but doctors never considered his life in jeopardy after the player had his carotid artery nearly severed by a teammate's skate in a freak and frightening accident.

 

Zednik underwent an hour of surgery to reconnect the artery Sunday night and was listed in stable condition in the intensive care unit at Buffalo General Hospital on Monday. He was awake and cooperative with the medical staff, doctors said.

 

Attending surgeon Sonya Noor said there were no initial signs of brain damage, which is a fear whenever the coratid artery is clamped. She said clamps were in place for about 15 to 20 minutes during surgery, which she considers a short time.

[Daisy]

But surely you are not discounting the impact of the development of sulfa drugs (like, a hundred years ago) and vaccines against polio, diptheria, typhoid, pertussis,etc.

 

And then there is the eradication of smallpox---no small thing.