Is formal dining holding its own?

[Wilfrid]

There's no American tradition of eating neck, shoulder, repurposed waste, etc. That stuff has always been considered "poor people food" (or dog food).

 

Correct, while the French have been all over hung game and herring and mackerel for centuries. And you can read hundreds of pages about precisely sourced veg and fruit in Waverley Root.

[Wilfrid]

Sacré bleu, you American barbarian, take that disgustingly oily herring and potato dish out of my sight. You and your hot dogs.

[Neocon maudit]

 

 

I agree with 2. though somebody is still getting the good parts of today's superior animals.

 

Russian and Chinese oligarchs.

 

 

Why can't they be satisfied with all the good claret?

 

Other than the rubbery lobster, some oily Mediterranean fish was my least favourite course at Per Se.

[Adrian]

Luksus and contra at least. What else is in that style - you guys know better than me.

 

Of course notions of luxury have changed to include things like Japanese and new Nordic food and their American equivalents. Or, open up an architectural magazine.

[Wilfrid]

Of course, but not Sutton's examples. Why not cite Spain? The notion hasn't evolved to include waste products or, with rare exceptions, veggies. And it has always, obviously included game and oily fish, both of which are as French as they are anything else.

 

Meanwhile, Chang this afternoon announced Momofuku's own brand of sustainable white sturgeon caviar. Did not get the memo.

[joethefoodie]

There's no American tradition of eating neck, shoulder, repurposed waste, etc. That stuff has always been considered "poor people food" (or dog food).

 

Right. Because poor people in America who have been eating that stuff (neck, shoulder, hocks, shanks, tails) forever, don't get to be called American.

[LiquidNY]

Homeless people are Americans too, but I wouldn't say there's an American tradition of sleeping on sewer grates.

[Wilfrid]

Adrian, just to be clear, of course there are all kinds of global movements and influences in culture. I was only concerned about one guy saying quite unambiguously, in the context of classic fine dining, that "our" notions of luxury were evolving from foie gras and truffles to waste products and custom-sourced vegetables. Only about that. I'm skeptical unless "our" is defined quite narrowly.

 

There's a whole universe of assertions which are different from that--involving architecture and design, Japan and Spain, sushi and reindeer--which might well be true.

[Sneakeater]

I think "our" in that sentence can be defined quite narrowly.

[Wilfrid]

Homeless people are Americans too, but I wouldn't say there's an American tradition of sleeping on sewer grates.

 

There are multiple American traditions, of course (including the folkloric hobo). This came up months ago when some misguided journalist suggested there wasn't an American tradition of eating pig's feet.

 

There are historically varying traditions too. Salmon and trout are with us always, but you're more likely to find things like herring on mid-20th century American menus than menus from the 90s/00s.

[Wilfrid]

[Sneakeater]

No American tradition my ass.

 

 

(I'm sure I posted this last time, too.)

[Wilfrid]

Pretty sure you did.

[Sneakeater]

And I'm gonna post it next time.

[LiquidNY]

There are multiple American traditions, of course (including the folkloric hobo). This came up months ago when some misguided journalist suggested there wasn't an American tradition of eating pig's feet.

What Americans traditionally eat pigs feet and offal? Slaves? Poor, first-generation immigrants? Certainly there's no tradition of going to a luxurious restaurant for a special occasion and ordering that stuff, even in the antebellum south.