Jump to content

Is formal dining holding its own?


Recommended Posts

 

 

That's kind of my point - you can both justify a markup and also prices have been bid up for every part of the name brand animal. It used to be that the market for egglston pork neck was the same as the market for pork neck. Now, it's a different product with market demand of its own.

Prices have been bid up on most parts of cows, pigs and sheep. Quite seriously, once you start to struggle making your margin on oxtail, you really do have to go to braising neck or shin. I did see a calf's foot on a new, trendy NYC menu recently, but that's not widespread yet.

Sure. Not inconsistent with my point.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

QUOTE Perhaps the confusion arises because there are new optionsplaces like Momofuku Ssamwhere you get haute European cooking without most of the trappings. But it's a misconception to suggest that

First, anyplace that forces a male to wear ties is out.   Second, anyplace that feels like a Cathedral and forces hushed tones is out.   Third, anyplace the accepts reservations appears to be on

Just because something is a ten-course New Nordic tasting menu, that doesn't make it fine dining. You still have to see how good the ingredients are and the kitchen work is. It could still be ambitiou

 

 

That's kind of my point - you can both justify a markup and also prices have been bid up for every part of the name brand animal. It used to be that the market for egglston pork neck was the same as the market for pork neck. Now, it's a different product with market demand of its own.

Prices have been bid up on most parts of cows, pigs and sheep. Quite seriously, once you start to struggle making your margin on oxtail, you really do have to go to braising neck or shin. I did see a calf's foot on a new, trendy NYC menu recently, but that's not widespread yet.

 

Sure. Not inconsistent with my point.

 

But would you agree that what restaurateurs are doing is managing customers' expectations--more or less successfully--that cuts like this appear on dinner menus and bear prices $30 and up (just as they manage customers in the direction of ordering several small plates for a total of $40 or more when they'd be reluctant to pay $40 for a single entree)?

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

That's kind of my point - you can both justify a markup and also prices have been bid up for every part of the name brand animal. It used to be that the market for egglston pork neck was the same as the market for pork neck. Now, it's a different product with market demand of its own.

Prices have been bid up on most parts of cows, pigs and sheep. Quite seriously, once you start to struggle making your margin on oxtail, you really do have to go to braising neck or shin. I did see a calf's foot on a new, trendy NYC menu recently, but that's not widespread yet.

Sure. Not inconsistent with my point.

But would you agree that what restaurateurs are doing is managing customers' expectations--more or less successfully--that cuts like this appear on dinner menus and bear prices $30 and up (just as they manage customers in the direction of ordering several small plates for a total of $40 or more when they'd be reluctant to pay $40 for a single entree)?

Yesish? I think chang's statement is about right. The meat at the typical bistro is coming from better animals than in the past (broadly, meat prices are high now, but we're talking the new American bistro of the last decade or so) but the bistro level cuts are cheaper cuts. So both are going on. It's not hard to find a restaurant serving a crummy strip loin for a reasonable price. But those aren't the places we go.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Right, but the better restaurants weren't serving crummy steaks, chops, cutlets, tenderloin, etc--even if the quality has improved. They can't serve the good stuff any more at prices people will pay on a daily basis--special occasion high-roller items like aged ribeye for two survive.

 

I am just not sure, because I certainly haven't ever done the comparison, whether the difference between a good steak and a crummy one is equally obvious when it comes to cuts like tail, feet, neck, gizzards, etc.

Link to post
Share on other sites

heck, a local place in Columbus, Georgia is serving a burger made from some LaFrieda blend or another. what I can't wrap my head around is that I'm one of the possibly 3 (if that) people here who would even recognize the name.

 

You see LaFrieda delivery trucks all over town now, all the time. It doesn't make the stuff bad, but it makes it seem less special.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well "survive" but when were there ample good bistros serving those cuts ever? The proliferation of the new American bistro is a new thing and you can still get a pork chop at vinegar hill house. That said, the last couple years have been tough.

 

Gizzards for sure - if not quality of animal, at least freshness which carries a cost. Shin? I'd doubt it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

yeah any of the long stew cuts (necks etc.) I don't see how the meat quality makes a perceptible difference so long as it's cooked well. something like a blade steak or chop it matters cause that's a much shorter cooking process...

Link to post
Share on other sites

yeah any of the long stew cuts (necks etc.) I don't see how the meat quality makes a perceptible difference so long as it's cooked well. something like a blade steak or chop it matters cause that's a much shorter cooking process...

 

I have to say that I have tasted the difference in lamb ragu between supermarket lamb shoulder and local butcher lamb shoulder. Local butcher shoulder from a local lamb tastes a lot more like lamb. The same for oxtail. Even after cooking for several hours.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...