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Is formal dining holding its own?

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QUOTE Perhaps the confusion arises because there are new optionsplaces like Momofuku Ssamwhere you get haute European cooking without most of the trappings. But it's a misconception to suggest that

First, anyplace that forces a male to wear ties is out.   Second, anyplace that feels like a Cathedral and forces hushed tones is out.   Third, anyplace the accepts reservations appears to be on

Just because something is a ten-course New Nordic tasting menu, that doesn't make it fine dining. You still have to see how good the ingredients are and the kitchen work is. It could still be ambitiou

The crab meal, by my calculation, would be about $1800pp at Per Se using these crabs or other ingredients of the same price (vs $270pp at Ishikawa). I think that's the only thing you need to know about nyc restaurants.



Orik often seems to feel New York restaurants are overpriced for what they serve, and whilst I certainly suspect NY cuisine is not what it could be, most other people on this board seem to feel local restaurants would have to charge [and somebody — the 1 per cent? — be willing to pay] much higher prices to attain proper top-level food. Given New York rents [and how little most of the staff seem to be earning], what else is to be done?

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I suspect, given the current reigning ideologies, at least amongst metropolitan youth, it would be politically difficult to push back against some of these trends.


Also, it's rarely a winning tactic to tell someone what they think is cool actually sux0r, and they only like it because they're poor.

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I think the media plays a big part, since they are almost entirely uncritical of these trends.


And obliviously so, I suspect. I don't imagine Jeff Gordinier is lying awake kicking himself for not asking Canora if the menu changes at Hearth were driven by economics, or agonizing over whether it was right to compose a series of articles tracking Humm-Guidara's yes/no approach to minimalism.


I'm even more certain that Sutton--even though he's a restaurant price guru--thinks the (largely hypothetical) rejection of foie gras in favor of turnip tops is driven entirely by aesthetics.

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I've seen lungs at the Arthur Avenue market, so I thought they were okay. I'm surprised we haven't seen more chicken gizzards, although I think Valenti rolled them out at Ouest when it was still open.


Valenti, if I'm not mistaken, was also serving a huge lamb shank. He was a ground-breaker, for NYC.



yeah any of the long stew cuts (necks etc.) I don't see how the meat quality makes a perceptible difference so long as it's cooked well. something like a blade steak or chop it matters cause that's a much shorter cooking process...


I have to say that I have tasted the difference in lamb ragu between supermarket lamb shoulder and local butcher lamb shoulder. Local butcher shoulder from a local lamb tastes a lot more like lamb. The same for oxtail. Even after cooking for several hours.


Of course; even the Colorado lamb I get at the butcher is much better than supermarket lamb I've been forced to buy.


The problem with restaurants clamoring over, and serving, the "cheaper cuts" that we actually want to eat because they are more flavorful, is that there aren't enough "cheaper cuts" to go around. There are less of them on an animal. So they soon become almost as expensive as the "better cuts" on that same animal. And retail, for consumers, goes crazy.

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Less emphasis on build-out.

Ding ding ding. Or look at what ishikawa looks like



At Kohaku, which recently got the third star, I was worried that wall splatter creatures will gnaw at me.



When I got a business plan for a would-be 3 michelin star place (to be run by a famous chef from Chicago) about 7 years ago, the proposed cost was only 3.5 times higher than what I was just shown for a fast food joint.


eta: checked again - 2.8 times, not 3.5. sorry.

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