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I would eat at Delancy more if the wait were tolerable, or if you could make a reservation. It doesn't seem like a well run place to me--the fact that large parties can (and do) reserve means that there are 3 large groups taking up most of the restaurant, and everyone else is competing for the 5 small tables or 5 seats at the bar. and I didn't think the kitchen was able to handle the volume, either--while our food came within a decent amount of time, I noticed that it took the groups forever to get their (an hour to get the salads; a pizza that had been forgotten about and came as another group was preparing to leave).

 

I like the Via Trib on Capitol Hill--the Fremont one wasn't as good, on my one visit. I like Veraci a lot though I tell them to skip the dried oregano on top--otherwise they dump a bucketful on. Veraci has a great caeser as well.

 

I understand your frustration with Delancey's reservation policy, and in fact is I find it annoying, too. Problem is, this policy is pretty standard at most of the country's great pizzerias. Look at Apizza Scholls in Portland, or Pizzeria Bianco in Phoenix, or Motorino in New York. Basically the same policy across the board. It sucks, but for whatever reason, it's become the norm. I'm with you, though: let me make reservations for smaller groups! If you have to take my credit card number down and charge me if I don't show up, that's a price I'm willing to pay.

 

Thanks for the tip on Veraci; I've been meaning to try them, and I'm not a huge fan of dried oregano in large amounts.

 

Also, I think it would be interesting to see a comparison of all the Via Tribunali locations, same with Tutta Bella, see which one makes the most consistently good pizza.

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Yeah, I'd be okay with a policy that either takes them for no one, or takes them for everyone. Or maybe, maybe, take a res for ONE large party. But not 3. I've stood in line at Grimaldi's, and while standing in line isn't my idea of fun, at least it feels fair.

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@prasantrin: Trust me, it's not too charred. It's just right (but the low light does make it look a little darker than it actually is). You need that level of char to get the smokiness of the wood imbued into the flavor of the crust. I've seen those pics from Di Fara you're talking about, and yes, those definitely soared past charred and went straight to burnt.

Emphasis added.

 

I'm sorry but this makes no sense at all. Ever heard of BBQ?

 

Those pies are definitely over cooked.

 

A charred pizza crust and carbonized meat are two entirely different beasts, and comparing the two is pointless.

 

I'm not trying to tell you that you don't know what you like. If you don't like pizza cooked to this level, then hey, you don't like it. Nothing wrong with that. But to call the pizzas in the photos above "burnt" is inaccurate, plain and simple. This isn't subjective. Your opinion on what you like is. (But you should join me sometime and try Delancey and see if you still think it's burnt).

 

 

Now this is an overcooked pizza!

 

burnt%2Bpizza.jpg

Who said anything about carbonized meat?

 

My point regarding BBQ was that you cook the meat with smoke at lowish temperatures, thereby imbuing the meat with smokiness from the smoke from the burning wood. There's not carbonization involved.

 

And the char on the crust on those pizzas is from the high heat, not the smoke. To say that you have to cook it to that level to get smokiness from the wood is just plain wrong.

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I think that the pizzas in the first two photos have too much char for my taste. If they are from the same order it could be that they had recently added wood to the oven and it was a bit too hot. Or it could be the style of the house.

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I'm curious, what do PNW'ers think of Tutta Bella and Via Tribunali?

 

I think Tutta Bella is OK and Via Trib is pretty good. Neither are likely to make you forget what you ate in Naples. IMO, the best Neapolitan style pizza in town is being made at Filiberto's in Burien, but they don't have the Verace Pizza Napoletana cert, so nobody pays attention.

 

I think the VPN certification has gotten slightly out of hand. I've eaten good very VPN pizzas (Tutta Bella and Via Tribunali, for example), but the best Neapolitan-style pies I've eaten came from places that didn't have the certification. By tweaking the rules slightly (or just not caring about obtaining the certification in the first place), pizzaioli can produce a better pizza. So I'm curious to check out Filiberto's (there was a brief but entertaining article about the owner, Mina Perry, in the March 2010 Seattle Magazine).

 

 

 

Those pies are burnt, esp the first two. When I worked in Naples, the old guys would refer to such pies as having a case of the 'black measles.' :lol:

 

I'm sorry, but you just don't know what you're talking about.

 

It doesn't take a pizza expert to see that they're burnt. You just happen to like burnt pizza.

 

And cstuart is certainly right when it comes to achieving a level of smokiness without incinerating a pizza. To think otherwise is nonsense.

 

As for VPN certification, I can't think of a single place in Naples, certified or not--aside from perhaps Salvo, which is actually outside the city--that adheres to all of the rules. Let alone to the detriment of the product. Perhaps you can clue me in on a couple. The idea that a restaurant is hamstrung by their VPN certification, and hence serves an inferior product, is just not true. The Association is concerned with the spirit of the rules and that the larger, most important steps--oven, dough ingredients, etc.--are taken. They're not concerned about extended fermentations or whether the tomato sauce is applied in a clockwise motion. I have discussed this issue at length with M di Porzio, the president of the Ass. Verace Pizza Napoletana in Naples. They have no plans to alter their certification criteria, though there has been talk of removing restaurants that no longer serve what's considered a high quality product. But I can assure you that if restaurants lose their certification, it will have nothing to do with nit-picking about the rules.

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@prasantrin: Trust me, it's not too charred. It's just right (but the low light does make it look a little darker than it actually is). You need that level of char to get the smokiness of the wood imbued into the flavor of the crust. I've seen those pics from Di Fara you're talking about, and yes, those definitely soared past charred and went straight to burnt.

Emphasis added.

 

I'm sorry but this makes no sense at all. Ever heard of BBQ?

 

Those pies are definitely over cooked.

 

A charred pizza crust and carbonized meat are two entirely different beasts, and comparing the two is pointless.

 

I'm not trying to tell you that you don't know what you like. If you don't like pizza cooked to this level, then hey, you don't like it. Nothing wrong with that. But to call the pizzas in the photos above "burnt" is inaccurate, plain and simple. This isn't subjective. Your opinion on what you like is. (But you should join me sometime and try Delancey and see if you still think it's burnt).

 

 

Now this is an overcooked pizza!

 

burnt%2Bpizza.jpg

Who said anything about carbonized meat?

 

My point regarding BBQ was that you cook the meat with smoke at lowish temperatures, thereby imbuing the meat with smokiness from the smoke from the burning wood. There's not carbonization involved.

 

And the char on the crust on those pizzas is from the high heat, not the smoke. To say that you have to cook it to that level to get smokiness from the wood is just plain wrong.

 

I'm sorry, I thought you meant the char on meat from being grilled, not the flavor of the smoke. Absolutely you don't need meet to be carbonized to obtain the flavor of the smoke, I agree. But bread is not meat. Just sticking a disc of dough into a wood-burning oven isn't going to make it taste smoky (although if there is a lot of ash on the floor of the oven, that's another matter). It needs to obtain char for the flavors to fully transfer. I have never had a pizza from a wood-burning oven that tasty smoky that didn't have some char to it. Now, if you don't prefer the level of char on those Delancey pies, that's your thing, but I think you're missing out on some great flavor.

 

 

I'm curious, what do PNW'ers think of Tutta Bella and Via Tribunali?

 

I think Tutta Bella is OK and Via Trib is pretty good. Neither are likely to make you forget what you ate in Naples. IMO, the best Neapolitan style pizza in town is being made at Filiberto's in Burien, but they don't have the Verace Pizza Napoletana cert, so nobody pays attention.

 

I think the VPN certification has gotten slightly out of hand. I've eaten good very VPN pizzas (Tutta Bella and Via Tribunali, for example), but the best Neapolitan-style pies I've eaten came from places that didn't have the certification. By tweaking the rules slightly (or just not caring about obtaining the certification in the first place), pizzaioli can produce a better pizza. So I'm curious to check out Filiberto's (there was a brief but entertaining article about the owner, Mina Perry, in the March 2010 Seattle Magazine).

 

 

 

Those pies are burnt, esp the first two. When I worked in Naples, the old guys would refer to such pies as having a case of the 'black measles.' :lol:

 

I'm sorry, but you just don't know what you're talking about.

 

It doesn't take a pizza expert to see that they're burnt. You just happen to like burnt pizza.

 

And cstuart is certainly right when it comes to achieving a level of smokiness without incinerating a pizza. To think otherwise is nonsense.

 

As for VPN certification, I can't think of a single place in Naples, certified or not--aside from perhaps Salvo, which is actually outside the city--that adheres to all of the rules. Let alone to the detriment of the product. Perhaps you can clue me in on a couple. The idea that a restaurant is hamstrung by their VPN certification, and hence serves an inferior product, is just not true. The Association is concerned with the spirit of the rules and that the larger, most important steps--oven, dough ingredients, etc.--are taken. They're not concerned about extended fermentations or whether the tomato sauce is applied in a clockwise motion. I have discussed this issue at length with M di Porzio, the president of the Ass. Verace Pizza Napoletana in Naples. They have no plans to alter their certification criteria, though there has been talk of removing restaurants that no longer serve what's considered a high quality product. But I can assure you that if restaurants lose their certification, it will have nothing to do with nit-picking about the rules.

 

I would have some faith in other pizza-lovers and argue that it doesn't take a pizza expert to see that they're not burnt.

 

But some experience goes a long way. If the Delancey pizzas in those photos fit your definition of "incinerated," perhaps you need to eat a few more pizzas.

 

As for the whole VPN certification thing, I totally agree with you that if a restaurant loses its certification, it's more about the overall quality of the product than a slight breach in the "sacred rules."

 

But I'm not arguing that. Neither am I arguing that some or even any of the VPN pizzerias follow all of the rules. I have eaten at more VPN-certified pizzerias than I can recall, and the point I'm trying to make is, I would be very hard-pressed to find one that stood out head-and-shoulders above another. The majority of them make a very similar product, and that just happens to be a high-quality product. I'm not disputing that at all. Some of the best pizzas I've eaten come from VPN-certified pizzerias (Keste in New York probably has a slight edge over the others I've sampled). My point is, they're all so very similar.

 

Which is why the very best pizzas I've eaten aren't VPN-certified. True, they're not as "authentically" Neapolitan as something from, say, Tutta Bella, but I do not believe authenticity automatically means your product is superior. The Margherita at Pizzeria Bianco in Phoenix is a perfect example. Doesn't adhere to any VPN rules, yet makes (in my opinion, anyway) a better pizza.

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  • 2 weeks later...

ThisIsPizza, you don't happen to work at Delancey, do you? We can all see that those pizzas are burnt, and for you to keep insisting that they aren't, and that people here, who have undoubtedly eaten as many pizzas per capita as you have, makes your comments sound a lot like shilling.

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ThisIsPizza, you don't happen to work at Delancey, do you? We can all see that those pizzas are burnt, and for you to keep insisting that they aren't, and that people here, who have undoubtedly eaten as many pizzas per capita as you have, makes your comments sound a lot like shilling.

 

No, I don't work there. I just happen to think it's much better than people on this board give it credit for (including many who have never even been there, yet feel completely justified in passing judgment on it). If you read my blog, you'll see it's all about discussing the country's very best pizza. That's my M.O.

 

If you all want to think these pizzas are burnt, fine, that's your deal, and anything I write here is unlikely to change your mind. For all I know everyone here has not only eaten as much pizza as I have, but maybe even more. I just don't know. I do think it's fair to say that I've probably eaten at a broader range of pizzerias than most people (the ones covered on my blog really are only the tip of the iceberg).

 

What bugs me is that I come on this board trying to promote something I find to be good, talking about some food that I'm trying to encourage others to check out, and then in response another user comes on and instead of injecting something positive into the discussion, just says, "Those pies are burnt." Not a question like "Those pies looked a little charred for me; what did they taste like?" or a thanks for the photos and report. Just a negative remark designed to cut my opinion down. What kind of group camaraderie is that? Do you guys like having that kind of attitude prevalent on Mouthfuls? Because I sure wouldn't if I were a longtime member.

 

I just want to tell people about good food. That's all I'm here for!

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What bugs me is that I come on this board trying to promote something I find to be good, talking about some food that I'm trying to encourage others to check out, and then in response another user comes on and instead of injecting something positive into the discussion, just says, "Those pies are burnt." Not a question like "Those pies looked a little charred for me; what did they taste like?" or a thanks for the photos and report. Just a negative remark designed to cut my opinion down. What kind of group camaraderie is that? Do you guys like having that kind of attitude prevalent on Mouthfuls? Because I sure wouldn't if I were a longtime member.

 

I just want to tell people about good food. That's all I'm here for!

 

 

We all want to talk about good food (and be honest about bad food), and beleive me this board is comprised mostly of incredibly welcoming people, but when one of your first comments is "I'm sorry, but you just don't know what you're talking about." well let's just say it doesn't inspire instant trust & camaraderie...

 

Try to tone it down a bit & I'm sure you'll find everyone here as fun & accepting as I did when I first showed up :)

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What bugs me is that I come on this board trying to promote something I find to be good, talking about some food that I'm trying to encourage others to check out, and then in response another user comes on and instead of injecting something positive into the discussion, just says, "Those pies are burnt." Not a question like "Those pies looked a little charred for me; what did they taste like?" or a thanks for the photos and report. Just a negative remark designed to cut my opinion down. What kind of group camaraderie is that? Do you guys like having that kind of attitude prevalent on Mouthfuls? Because I sure wouldn't if I were a longtime member.

 

I just want to tell people about good food. That's all I'm here for!

 

 

We all want to talk about good food (and be honest about bad food), and beleive me this board is comprised mostly of incredibly welcoming people, but when one of your first comments is "I'm sorry, but you just don't know what you're talking about." well let's just say it doesn't inspire instant trust & camaraderie...

 

Try to tone it down a bit & I'm sure you'll find everyone here as fun & accepting as I did when I first showed up :)

 

I get what you're saying. But when someone's first comment to my post is to make a completely false (and negative) statement, borderlining on an insult toward me, I feel pretty justified in dispelling the falsity. We can all live in ignorance or we can try to learn.

 

But I'll try to be more patient. :)

 

Hopefully we can get back to actually talking about Delancey now!

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I still want to see a picture of the bottom of the that crust. I've looked at that picture over and over again, and it still looks overly charred to me.

 

I've eaten at VPN and excellent non-VPN places, and a few charred bubbles are OK, but your picture of the Delancey pizza appears to have more than a few. Maybe we could see some pictures taken in more natural light?

 

Regarding overcooking, with wood-fired pizza, I don't think the entire pizza has to be overcooked in order for the crust to be overcooked. To me, that crust still looks overcooked. One of these days, I'll get out to Seattle and try it myself. Until then, I hope to see some more pictures!

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I still want to see a picture of the bottom of the that crust. I've looked at that picture over and over again, and it still looks overly charred to me.

 

I've eaten at VPN and excellent non-VPN places, and a few charred bubbles are OK, but your picture of the Delancey pizza appears to have more than a few. Maybe we could see some pictures taken in more natural light?

 

Regarding overcooking, with wood-fired pizza, I don't think the entire pizza has to be overcooked in order for the crust to be overcooked. To me, that crust still looks overcooked. One of these days, I'll get out to Seattle and try it myself. Until then, I hope to see some more pictures!

 

 

Yeah, the problem with those photos is twofold:

 

1) My camera at the time was of extremely poor quality.

2) The lighting was very poor, making these shots (and the char) look darker than they actually were (plus, I didn't have Photoshop at the time either).

 

Luckily, I will be returning to Delancey for a full review and reshoot for Slice with my new Canon 60D, so I'll be sure to get the upskirt shot for you.

 

 

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