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Terror Attempt on Delta Flight


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Do you know if U.S. security has come with any reasons for not following up with his father's report?

oops!

did he start his email saying "i am a nigerian banker"?

 

I believe one problem was a misspelling of the son's name in the initial report filed by the embassy staff in Nigeria. That caused the search of the visa database to come up without a match for the reported individual.

 

There's a discouraging interview on the state department's website which shows the confusion over who filed what report, and when they did it. The State Department has two main systems for tracking documentation (VIPERS and CLASS), but an embassy person needs to cross check them. It's not clear whether outside agencies like TSA or CIA have access

 

If (and it's a big IF) the visa search came up with a hit for the son, it's possible the US would have put him on a no-fly or extra search list.

 

The discussion of the visa, and the search, and the no-fly, and which agency has the authority to put him on a no-fly or intensive search begins about 1/3 of the way down.

 

US embassy in London

 

ETA: cross posted with Yvonne

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Do you know if U.S. security has come with any reasons for not following up with his father's report?

oops!

did he start his email saying "i am a nigerian banker"?

 

I believe one problem was a misspelling of the son's name in the initial report filed by the embassy staff in Nigeria. That caused the search of the visa database to come up without a match for the reported individual.

 

One would think there's an algorithm to catch near matches, particularly given different transcriptions of foreign names.

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Do you know if U.S. security has come with any reasons for not following up with his father's report?

oops!

did he start his email saying "i am a nigerian banker"?

 

I believe one problem was a misspelling of the son's name in the initial report filed by the embassy staff in Nigeria. That caused the search of the visa database to come up without a match for the reported individual.

 

One would think there's an algorithm to catch near matches, particularly given different transcriptions of foreign names.

 

Soundex is overused in this context, and can make the matching problems even worse.

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Yes, his Dad did report him, but his Dad didn't know he had become very friendly with al Qaeda. His Dad just knew he's disappeared, and his Dad suspected him of extreme Islamism.

 

"Potential human rights violations" is indeed a convenient excuse. It's also heavily embedded into EU law.

 

Information sharing between intelligence agencies** is a difficult matter. Setting aside the politics involved, an agency that runs across some piece of information needs to consider the sensitivity of the source, the certainty level of the information, the ability of the receiving agency to act on the information effectively, the legal ramifications*, etc.

 

(snip)

 

My firm had contracts to administer several benefits programs for senior executives of multinational firms. Even for relatively simple information like salary, bonus, and benefit eligibility, with full informed permission from the individual and employer, we had to jump through hoops about moving data across international borders or out of the EU.

 

I can imagine that a third party report about a person's personal activities in another country and his association with a religious teacher would be an order of magnitude more difficult to act upon.

 

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Golly. I'm going to email this thread to the State Department because, really, there are some great ideas here that I'm guessing no one else has thought of.

 

I learned that profiling young Middle Eastern and Asiatic men would have helped catch the Nigerian dude.

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But more seriously, you are proposing that suspected potential attackers should not enjoy a full portfolio of human rights. I ask you, what constitutes a suspect in this instance?

 

Now don't be facetious <_<

 

I'm suggesting that the term "human rights" has become meaningless, and is now presumed by some to extend to all human activity and existence. What is needed is a realistic balance between what human rights are construed to include and the reasonable needs of security.

 

In the instance I quoted, I take the view that anyone whose past activities included those of Abdulmutallab must inevitably forfeit the "right" of privacy from the world's security services. He brings that upon himself by his association with Muslim fundamentalists.

 

Some "human rights" are sacrosanct, and these include those you mentioned in passing in an earlier post. There is no circumstance in which I would allow imprisonment without habeas corpus, or "rendition". The right to religion or not, and the right to think what you like are fundamental human rights. And so on. People validly disagree about what are and are not "human rights", and I suspect that disagreement will always exist, but there is no need for universal agreement unless and until legislation is being framed; and then there needs to be a proper debate.

 

Current EU legislation goes far beyond what is practical, enforceable, and consensual. The process of adding to the list has, I think, simply gone too far.

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Information sharing between intelligence agencies** is a difficult matter. Setting aside the politics involved, an agency that runs across some piece of information needs to consider the sensitivity of the source, the certainty level of the information, the ability of the receiving agency to act on the information effectively, the legal ramifications*, etc.

 

Absolutely so. The Catch 22 is that the only people who can do the job of the security services are people you wouldn't want as your next door neighbour. They have to be willing to lie, cheat, assault, kill and all those other things that we don't like.

 

So of course it's dangerous to give them information about people, and if they don't get that information then they can't do the job we expect them to do. But if we do give them the information, we can't trust them to use it properly because they're the sort of people who lie, cheat, assault and kill.

 

We have to choose.

 

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I learned that profiling young Middle Eastern and Asiatic men would have helped catch the Nigerian dude.

 

No you didn't. But if you'd read all the posts slowly you might have learned that profiling would have helped catch the Nigerian dude :lol:

 

 

Are you joking?

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