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Diner kicked out for confronting shouty chef...


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I have bitched out managers of restaurants for bitching out their restaurant staff in front of customers. It is never okay--do it in your back office or something, or in the bathroom, if that serves as your office. Don't want to hear it or witness you treating your employees like shit. I don't know why this issue would be so complex.

Yeah, ranking out an employee in public isn't done - or at least isn't sanctioned - in professional offices. (Though it's a concept that many small business owners seem never to have learned.) A restaurant shouldn't be any different.

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You expect a reporter for the Times to have a keener sense of what's appropriate than a high-school or college student tossing their latest thoughts onto a social networking site.

You do, Oakster. You do. And I presume that you are over 35.

 

That's my point.

 

There's another universe out there - a younger generation. And they are about to become the majority and they will change society's mores.

 

Steel yourself upon their maturity.

 

If that younger generation kid is getting in trouble for a Facebook post as he enters the workforce, he's probably getting in trouble with an older guy like you, not with his peers.

 

Remember the 60s and sexual liberation and free love. Much (not all) of that ethos has fully penetrated society to the point that it is often barely noticed or commented upon. Many grandmothers today cannot watch a TV sitcom with being disgusted by constant sexual innuendo or flat out sex talk everywhere on every major channel throughout the prime time hours. It is horrifying to a lot of that generation. And to many people from other countries and cultures.

 

That "NYT's reporter" took off his reporting cap, put on his blogging cap, and BLOGGED! He didn't report.

hi i'm 24 years old and what is this

 

Seriously, give young people more credit than that.

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There's another universe out there - a younger generation. And they are about to become the majority and they will change society's mores.

That's always been true.

Yes, it has.

 

And this specific generation's attitudes and their seepage into mainstream culture explain quite well what is going on in this "blogging" instance. Naturally, if this was obvious to you, then my observation was uninteresting.

 

Based as ever on the principle that actuality is immune from criticism.

I haven't passed any judgment on whether this actuality is good or bad. I'm simply describing actuality. It's impossible to pass judgment on something if it is not effectively described (or even noticed).

 

And I haven't commented on whether the blogger or the chef is right or wrong in the particulars. I have passed no judgment on that as well as it doesn't interest me all that much. (If I must, they are both right and they are both wrong.)

 

I'm just saying why it is perfectly natural to see such blog entries in the illustrious NYT and to be ready for more and more of them.

 

Whether you like that reality or not, that's your bizniz.

 

If you do a bit of simple research you'll discover that Lieber is on the cusp of 40.

I'm confused. I don't understand your point. Some older people can't be hip to the groove, too? How old was Leary when he coined "Turn on, tune in, drop out" ?

 

Sifton's hip to the groove. How old is he?

 

 

 

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My best understanding now - and it may be wrong - is that you misunderstood oakapple's use of the word "expect."

 

If I say, for example, that I don't expect to find a name mispelled in the New Yorker, it's most naturally taken as expressing my expectations as to the standards the magazine should meet. It's odd to take it as some sort of forecast. But I think that's how you've taken oakapple's comment about what one expects from a Times reporter, which is why the conversation has failed to gell in any useful way.

 

ETA: Or is this clearer? I don't expect Times reporters to invent stories. As a matter of forecasting the future, I do expect it will happen again, just as it has happened in the past. But it's not what I expect from them. Any help?

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And this specific generation's attitudes and their seepage into mainstream culture explain quite well what is going on in this "blogging" instance. Naturally, if this was obvious to you, then my observation was uninteresting. . . .

 

And I haven't commented on whether the blogger or the chef is right or wrong in the particulars. I have passed no judgment on that as well as it doesn't interest me all that much. (If I must, they are both right and they are both wrong.)

 

I'm just saying why it is perfectly natural to see such blog entries in the illustrious NYT and to be ready for more and more of them.

You seem, then, to be making a pretty vacuous observation. We all realize that Diner's Journal is a blog (the page itself says so, in case one didn't know), and that blogs didn't exist when some of us were growing up. You do seem to have this habit of pointing out the obvious, and then congratulating yourself for telling us things that you think we didn't know.

 

The entire question, therefore, is "whether the blogger or the chef is right or wrong in the particulars." There really is nothing more to it than that. If you have "passed no judgment on that," then you basically haven't said a thing.

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There's another universe out there - a younger generation. And they are about to become the majority and they will change society's mores.

That's always been true.

 

23 skidoo!!!

The bee's knees.

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reflecting on this exchange reminds me that I worked with chefs who would not have hesitated to physically assault a customer who entered the kitchen to tell him to stop yelling at staff.

 

i worked with one guy who might've killed such an interloper.

 

 

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When did Nico pour a canister of salt over the head of a customer who had he audacity to ask for some? Mid 1980s?

 

When did White physically assault his staff?

 

When did Ramsay kick out customers?

 

All of this so old hat. It's not a generational thing.

 

Eta: I'm not condoning the behavior, but I do think it's related to the highly stressful work environment.

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sounds like noone was wearing their their grown up pants that day. no customer needs to be hearing a business owner/boss berating his staff and unless the business owner/boss is breaking the law or endangering lives a concerned party should be satisfied with bringing their concerns to that owner/boss' attention.

what if the boss is the one doing the yelling? (Forgione owns the restaurant, no?)

 

a friend of mine watched her waiter abused, in the dining room in her view, by the owner. she's a very mellow, delicate and proper person, rather shy in public. she felt very uneasy, cut her dinner short and told the owner how upsetting it was. he said something dismissive that it was no big deal, he was Italian and couldn't help it. Couldn't help it? my delicate, proper friend grabbed a glass of wine, threw it at a wall and said "ah, i couldn't help it" :lol:

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