Eater

[Sneakeater]

And really, note the almost mind-boggling scope of ignorance of the journalistic subject matter here:  Sietsema not only didn't know the merest basics of German wine, but he also didn't know who the well-known proprietor of the place he was reviewing was or that it was connected to a well-known restaurant.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Sneakeater

[Wilfrid]

36 minutes ago, Sneakeater said:

Wait he said THAT???????????

Yes. That’s another grudge I bear. This blogger knew who owned Terroir and where they could store wine. As @Sneakeater recounts above. 
 

One happy outcome was Grieco placing Sietsema’s comment on the front of the Terroir wine list.

[backyardchef]

Oddly, none of this bothers me nearly as much as it bothers you all. I'm offended by lots of things critics write every day. I generally disagree with Sietsema's taste. But I find the NYT writing about food unreadable as a whole. But, so is Eater, Yelp, The Infatuation, Serious Eats, Forbes, Bloomberg, The NY Post....and on and on. I just can't read any of it. 

Edited November 17, 2023 by backyardchef

[small h]

3 hours ago, Orik said:

comments were locked for that article specifically before they were disabled altogether

Right, certain articles had their comments locked. I’m pretty sure that’s almost universal, when things get testy or outdated.  But I don’t think doing away with comments altogether had anything to do with a particular article or contributor.

[Wilfrid]

This was a comments thread showing Sietsema to be an *unrepentant* fool. Special case. It’s inconceivable that Wells, for example, would not have corrected himself and apologized.

[backyardchef]

19 minutes ago, Wilfrid said:

This was a comments thread showing Sietsema to be an *unrepentant* fool. Special case. It’s inconceivable that Wells, for example, would not have corrected himself and apologized.

Oddly, I can conceive of it. 

 

[backyardchef]

13 hours ago, MitchW said:

Yes, the no comments thing was basically started because they didn’t want anyone disagreeing with anything they wrote, even the factually inaccurate stuff.

Wells talked about ignoring the replies he got to the Fieri restaurant review and how it was one of the few times he didn't reply to people about his review because he didn't want to.

And then he said "And now, boy, everything's just become so serious. And you sit at the counter and the chef comes out and tells you what he did to the Brussels sprouts leaves and no, there's not a lot of dancing."

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by backyardchef

[Wilfrid]

I’m sorry, but unless you have a reason… He’s a career Times journalist (they get things wrong but correct them) and by all accounts and in my experience a good guy.

The idea that he would write about Terroir in ignorance of its connection with Hearth, be corrected, but stick his fingers in his ears and never admit it or apologize is, I submit again, inconceivable.

[backyardchef]

12 minutes ago, Wilfrid said:

I’m sorry, but unless you have a reason… He’s a career Times journalist (they get things wrong but correct them) and by all accounts and in my experience a good guy.

The idea that he would write about Terroir in ignorance of its connection with Hearth, be corrected, but stick his fingers in his ears and never admit it or apologize is, I submit again, inconceivable.

Except I can conceive of it and I have seen him unapologetically praise the work of people who didn't do the cooking and bought their recipes and techniques from consultants. A little research and fact checking goes a long way. Then you can fawn over the excellent consultants. But, nope. Credit to the person that's never setting foot in the kitchen. This is not like praising the restaurateur for hiring a good chef, it's giving credit to people for work they didn't do. I get it, that doesn't bother anyone else, but don't expect me to put him on a pedestal for that. I find it just as insulting as Sietsema refusing to be challenged. I'm happy to discuss privately, but sorry I can't just blindly agree. 

Edited November 17, 2023 by backyardchef

[backyardchef]

I've met Sietsema. He is a nice fella. I have seen Wells sipping coffee. He is a nice fella. Both wrote nice things about my food. I am grateful. I am also glad to be out of the industry. 

[Sneakeater]

I’ve met Sietsema too.  He’s a nice fella.  And I loved his band.

But he’s a blot on journalism.  

[Sneakeater]

You don’t accuse people of fraud in print without investigation, and then when you’re called on the facts deny it’s your job to investigate.

That’s just bullshit.

I mean it’s worse than bullshit. If Greico weren’t a public figure it would be libel. 

[Sneakeater]

That isn’t a matter of opinion.  It’s a matter of fact. 

[sweatshorts]

7 hours ago, Sneakeater said:

You don’t accuse people of fraud in print without investigation, and then when you’re called on the facts deny it’s your job to investigate.

That’s just bullshit.

I mean it’s worse than bullshit. If Greico weren’t a public figure it would be libel. 

Even if Greico is a public figure (and I don't think he'd pass the public figure test), wouldn't it be reckless disregard for Sietsema to accuse Greico of fraud without any investigation? I would think that saying "it's not my job to look into that" would be a great example to teach law students what reckless disregard is.

[backyardchef]

9 hours ago, Sneakeater said:

 

But he’s a blot on journalism.  

I didn't know you felt this way.

Edited November 18, 2023 by backyardchef

[Wilfrid]

Agree with all the above criticism but the basic problem is not knowing or caring that Terroir was connected with Hearth. Hardly esoteric.

[backyardchef]

https://ny.eater.com/2010/1/15/6746859/reminders-paul-grieco-still-pissed-at-robert-sietsema

[Sneakeater]

And to state the absolute obvious, the Terroir and Fox Nat cases are like exactly the same.

Sietsema goes to some ambitious place well regarded by people who know something, fails to understand what they're doing, and responds with an "exposé" intending to reveal those places for the fakes he assumes they must be if his ignorant self was unable to comprehend them, making wild accusations that upon examination are factually inaccurate and inexcusably irresponsible.

(Meanwhile, that Eater blurb @backyardchef linked attempts to paint this as a restaurauteur being pissed off at a bad review rather than an individual being outraged at libel.  I wonder if Eater's attorneys helped write that.)

Edited November 19, 2023 by Sneakeater

[backyardchef]

1 hour ago, Sneakeater said:

And to state the absolute obvious, the Terroir and Fox Nat cases are like exactly the same.

Sietsema goes to some ambitious place well regarded by people who know something, fails to understand what they're doing, and responds with an "exposé" intending to reveal these places for the fakes he assumes they must be if his ignorant self was unable to understand them, making wild accusations that upon examination are factually inaccurate and inexcusably irresponsible.

(Meanwhile, that Eater blurb @backyardchef linked attempts to paint this as a restaurauteur being pissed off at a bad review rather than an individual being outraged at libel.  I wonder if Eater's attorneys helped write that.)

And also to be clear I didn't portray the situation, Eater did. I think the whole situation is hysterical and actually embarrassing for literally all invested. Sietsema included. 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by backyardchef

[Sneakeater]

How does Grieco look bad?

He was a victim of tortious conduct.  

He should just allow himself to be defamed?

Edited November 18, 2023 by Sneakeater

[Wilfrid]

No embarrassment whatsoever for Marco or Paul.

[Orik]

Original "review":

Quote

denuded of their exoskeletons, with a papaya and cucumber slaw between them. These are two small shrimp for $28. Sure, they’re from Hawaii, but last I checked, most shrimp are shipped from far-flung locales, and they’re not that expensive, not for this size, and not for the privilege of eating the heads as a separate dish. (They’re about $18 more than an order of spot prawn from Japan at a place like Momoya in Soho.)

Oops, that's $10 for one, Robert! And what glorious micro prawn it would be! 

Current online version:

Quote

denuded of their exoskeletons, with a papaya and cucumber slaw between them. These are two small prawns for $28. Sure, they’re from Hawaii, but last I checked, most shrimp or prawns (and seafood for that matter) are shipped from far-flung locales, and they’re not that expensive, not for this size, and not for the privilege of eating the heads as a separate dish.

Original "review": 
 

Quote

The new restaurant on First Avenue with no name posted out front.

Oops, not First Avenue, Robert! Are you at Momofuku?

Current online version:
 

Quote

The new restaurant with no name posted out front.

And there are many more of those. You can tell the level of enthusiasm by the editor making corrections. The next round of the photo caption might as well say "a place, no name posted"

 

[Sneakeater]

I think Sietsema's view of ingredient quality is kind of the same as my mother's, who'd insist there was no detectable difference between butter and margarine

Edited November 19, 2023 by Sneakeater

[backyardchef]

11 hours ago, Sneakeater said:

I think Sietsema's view of ingredient quality is kind of the same as my mother's, who'd insist there was no detectable difference between butter and margarine

Source ? 

[backyardchef]

So, not Sietsema fans? I can't tell.