Sneakeater Posted October 25, 2023 Author Share Posted October 25, 2023 They can serve the tĂȘte of their goat and call it Boer's Head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backyardchef Posted October 25, 2023 Share Posted October 25, 2023 What about using a bore's head? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voyager Posted October 25, 2023 Share Posted October 25, 2023 I'm not a big spender but I've seen many starters no larger than the infamous shrimp that are priced at/near $28.  I boggle that this was unfamiliar to Sietsema.   Are food critics allowed to carry chips on their shoulders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backyardchef Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 As someone that can't possibly afford a $28 appetizer in my exceptionally rare restaurant meals, it is difficult to feel particularly passionate about much of this conversation, I have to admit. As a former restaurant operator, I am skin crawlingly aware of the damage that unfair(?) or inaccurate negative press can do to a new operation. I wonder how much influence a Sietsema review in Eater actually has. I have no idea.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneakeater Posted October 26, 2023 Author Share Posted October 26, 2023 (edited) 17 hours ago, voyager said: I'm not a big spender but I've seen many starters no larger than the infamous shrimp that are priced at/near $28.  I boggle that this was unfamiliar to Sietsema.   Are food critics allowed to carry chips on their shoulders? While SIetsema certainly has a chip on his shoulder (against ambitious restaurants) (and rich people), it is entirely possible that was unfamiliar to him -- as he is unfamiliar with this entire segment of the industry. Which is why it was such a bad move for Eater to fire Ryan Sutton and make Sietsema their general restaurant reviewer, rather than the hole-in-the-wall specialist he had been for decades. Edited October 26, 2023 by Sneakeater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilfrid Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 17 hours ago, voyager said: I'm not a big spender but I've seen many starters no larger than the infamous shrimp that are priced at/near $28.  I boggle that this was unfamiliar to Sietsema.   Are food critics allowed to carry chips on their shoulders? Right. I think my last restaurant meal was at Francie (unless it was before Chama Mama). Starters are priced $24-$31, and the cheapest one is a salad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilfrid Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 33 minutes ago, Sneakeater said: While SIetsema certainly has a chip on his shoulder (against ambitious restaurants) (and rich people), it is entirely possible that was unfamiliar to him -- as he is unfamiliar with this entire segment of the industry. Â "I don't know how much starters cost in ambitious restaurants and it's not my job to know." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Bonner Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 one wonders what the GM on the 39 dollar minetta burger looks like relative to the infamous 28 dollar shrimp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneakeater Posted October 26, 2023 Author Share Posted October 26, 2023 Just what I was thinking!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backyardchef Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 So, no one can relate. It explains much to me. If you can't afford that price, your opinions or experiences just don't matter.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilfrid Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 I can certainly relate to not being able to afford those prices. I think the objection is that Sietsema is singling out Foxface even though the pricing is in line with similar quality restaurants. Le Coucou $20 (leeks) to $31. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Bonner Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023  1 hour ago, backyardchef said: So, no one can relate. It explains much to me. If you can't afford that price, your opinions or experiences just don't matter.  hes not complaining that an appetizer is 28 dollars, he's complaining that two shrimp are 28 dollars. He's happy to recommend a 39 dollar burger. His critique isn't one of general affordability, its one of value for money - and its clear he doesn't understand ingredient costs.  1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backyardchef Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023  5 minutes ago, Anthony Bonner said:  hes not complaining that an appetizer is 28 dollars, he's complaining that two shrimp are 28 dollars. He's happy to recommend a 39 dollar burger.  Right. And I can't afford either, so don't feel as strongly. I am still curious what impact a Robert Sietsema review in Eater will have on a restaurant that is turning people away because it is so popular. Does it even matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneakeater Posted October 26, 2023 Author Share Posted October 26, 2023 It matters when media suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneakeater Posted October 26, 2023 Author Share Posted October 26, 2023 (edited) It matters when criticism sucks. I know @Orik disagrees with this, but the point of criticism isn't to drive business to or away from the criticism's subjects. The point of criticism is the be part of a stream of knowledgeable discourse, participating in the development of the general subject matter of the criticism. (It pisses off creators to be told that critics also participate in the development of their form, but tough shit: critics do.) So ignorant shit like Sietsema writes when he leaves his beat isn't mainly bad because it hurts (or helps in some cases when he ignorantly praises someplace) the places he reviews. It's mainly bad because it's bad criticism, degrading the discourse about food and food culture. Edited October 26, 2023 by Sneakeater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orik Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 1 hour ago, backyardchef said:  Right. And I can't afford either, so don't feel as strongly. I am still curious what impact a Robert Sietsema review in Eater will have on a restaurant that is turning people away because it is so popular. Does it even matter? From the business or guest aspect - Eater is not very influential but it is the most popular of its class (non paywalled, non fact checked, PR driven) so in the long term it means many people who could easily afford dinner at the restaurant won't come because that's what they can read without paying for nytimes/new yorker/grub street. I'm not losing sleep over it and I feel like having my name in The Post is, well, something. From Sneak's perspective (which I don't disagree with, I just don't think it's debased by reviews having a consumer guide component), yeah it's just incredibly poorly done as a critical piece. For reference, Sietsema and his companion spent $68/person on food for bread, shrimp, tartare, pig's ear, goat, and dessert. Without the prawns it'd have been $54 pp for a full meal. I'm not going to compare the value proposition to other places in town but I can say on the aggregate our food cost is 40% higher than average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backyardchef Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 29 minutes ago, Orik said: From the business or guest aspect - Eater is not very influential but it is the most popular of its class (non paywalled, non fact checked, PR driven) so in the long term it means many people who could easily afford dinner at the restaurant won't come because that's what they can read without paying for nytimes/new yorker/grub street. I'm not losing sleep over it and I feel like having my name in The Post is, well, something. From Sneak's perspective (which I don't disagree with, I just don't think it's debased by reviews having a consumer guide component), yeah it's just incredibly poorly done as a critical piece. For reference, Sietsema and his companion spent $68/person on food for bread, shrimp, tartare, pig's ear, goat, and dessert. Without the prawns it'd have been $54 pp for a full meal. I'm not going to compare the value proposition to other places in town but I can say on the aggregate our food cost is 40% higher than average. I am not surprised by the food cost at all. I'm also not surprised that Eater thinks owner's margins should be even slimmer than they already are. It's hard to take them seriously. They have always been a place that just repurposes press releases as journalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneakeater Posted October 26, 2023 Author Share Posted October 26, 2023 (edited) What bothers me personally is that when I don't repurpose press releases as journalism -- and I don't (and I'm gonna be up till 2 in the morning tonight not doing so) -- nobody believes that I don't. Edited October 26, 2023 by Sneakeater 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneakeater Posted October 26, 2023 Author Share Posted October 26, 2023 And I don't even get to be in the Post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneakeater Posted October 27, 2023 Author Share Posted October 27, 2023 (edited) To try to be pithy about it, good criticism makes the reader smarter. Sietsema's off-his-beat stuff makes the reader stupider. Edited October 27, 2023 by Sneakeater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backyardchef Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 2 hours ago, Sneakeater said: To try to be pithy about it, good criticism makes the reader smarter. Sietsema's off-his-beat stuff makes the reader stupider. I haven't encountered much food criticism that doesn't, tbh. But that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
small h Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneakeater Posted October 27, 2023 Author Share Posted October 27, 2023 1 hour ago, backyardchef said: I haven't encountered much food criticism that doesn't, tbh. But that's just me. I totally agree with you! There was actually a good thread about that on the pre-apocalypse MFF. Do you remember it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneakeater Posted October 27, 2023 Author Share Posted October 27, 2023 (edited) Anyway you're a trained pro. So it's your job not to respect critics. Edited October 27, 2023 by Sneakeater 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backyardchef Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 (edited) 18 hours ago, Sneakeater said: It matters when media suck. But I think media you adore sucks. I think food you adore sucks. I think everyone is fallible.  eta... I am not trying to be confrontational with you at all. This issue is definitely one that I feel strongly about as far as trying to respect differing points of view without righteous certainty clouding it. Edited October 27, 2023 by backyardchef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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