Steroids? Knock me down!

[hollywood]

has anyone brought up hall-of-famer gaylord perry and his use of the spitball?

I don't see the involvement of drugs in spitballs. I think the spitball is an example of the kind of rule breaking that's part of the inside baseball mystique of the game whereas drug taking isn't. Unless you have some info Perry was taking drugs to increase saliva production? Same way for pitchers cutting the ball to make it fuzzier looking, putting pomade on it, etc. Even corked bats for hitters. [Gee, does Sosa get a twofer--steroids and a corked bat?]

[Robert Schonfeld]

Some laws, and some rules, come to be held in contempt - rightly in some cases, wrongly in others.

Is there anyone reading who believes it is right to hold this rule in contempt?

[hollywood]

Some laws, and some rules, come to be held in contempt - rightly in some cases, wrongly in others.

Is there anyone reading who believes it is right to hold this rule in contempt?

Word.

[mongo_jones]

the implication is that if someone is taking some form of performance enhancer that isn't specifically banned or which isn't yet known to be performance enhancing it is fine.

 

i don't disagree that bonds etc. need to be censured, suspended, their records asterisked and so forth. however, i don't think cheating of this nature even is anything new. it is merely a matter of what you can get caught for and what the public narratives about those things happen to be when you get caught.

 

many of my students, for instance, take drugs to keep them awake artificially before exams etc. does this give them an unfair advantage over those who study "naturally"? it isn't illegal now, but if it becomes illegal in 3 years how should i feel about the a's i've been giving in these legal years?

[Wilfrid1]

Some laws, and some rules, come to be held in contempt - rightly in some cases, wrongly in others.

Is there anyone reading who believes it is right to hold this rule in contempt?

Yes, probably a significant number, maybe even a majority, of MLB ball-players and coaches. I think that's where the reality check comes in.

 

Edit: Oops, "reading"...well, we've had a lot of guests on line recently.

[Ron Johnson]

many of my students, for instance, take drugs to keep them awake artificially before exams etc. does this give them an unfair advantage over those who study "naturally"? it isn't illegal now, but if it becomes illegal in 3 years how should i feel about the a's i've been giving in these legal years?

I saw a story recently on a news program about students taking ADHD medications to improve concentration while studying for and taking exams. It is widely sold on campus.

[ranitidine]

No, Hollywood.  It was the Supreme Court that held baseball was exempt.

Isn't that what I said?

Yes. Remind me not to read the board when I'm tired.

[Robert Schonfeld]

probably a significant number, maybe even a majority, of MLB ball-players and coaches. I think that's where the reality check comes in.

 

And, if so, I think that's where federal legislation comes in. Nodding and winking at something like this is a clear showing of an organization out of control, like Enron.

[hollywood]

No, Hollywood.  It was the Supreme Court that held baseball was exempt.

Isn't that what I said?

Yes. Remind me not to read the board when I'm tired.

You need ADHD--whatever that is.

[mongo_jones]

i have to say i don't know that steroids help bonds make contact with the ball as often and accurately as he does. of course they help send the ball further.

a different view

 

BALCO's concoctions stall aging and create an improvement in reaction times, speed, strength -- every aspect of athletic performance. That's what's missing from the discussion of what these drugs can do for a baseball player.

 

It isn't simply a matter of turning the occasional warning-track fly ball into a first-row home run. It's turning on a 95-mph fastball because you're experienced enough to know it's coming and chemically-enhanced enough to get the bat on it.

 

 

edit to add: from elsewhere on espn

 

Willie Mays, 52, 1965: During the famous Pittsburgh drug trials in 1985, former Pirate John Milner testified that he took liquid amphetamine (which he referred to as "red juice") out of Mays' locker. We don't know when -- or, frankly, if -- Willie started using, but it raises suspicions.

Edited December 7, 2004 by mongo_jones

[Wilfrid1]

Some interesting random stats in the Times today. In 2001, 9% of drug tests on minor league players - yes, that's minor league - were positive. In 2003, 5 to 7% of more than 1400 tests on major league players were positive. Assuming only a fraction of usage gets picked up by the tests, that's a lot of doping going on.

 

I think the sport is entitled to impose an improved, fair and enforceable testing system if it wishes; I just feel bad for the individuals, like Giambi, and the treatment they've had in the tabloids for doing something which - it seems - is part of everyday life in the game.

[Rose]

According to the Washington Post, Senator McCain spoke with Bud Selig, and conveyed to him that Congress will have a bill on the President's desk in January if the owners and the union don't have a workable drug testing and disciplinary policy in place very soon.

 

This is exactly the kind of feel good legislation Congress loves to pass, and there's no doubt McCain would be happy to oblige.

 

 

WCBS Report

 

 

edited for content and to add the link

Jeeeeezus. With the state of the world, the country and everything else thats F'd U, I'd think the Supreme Court would have better things to do than care who has an unfair advantage in a GAME. No one's ever died because some dumb ball player enhanced his performance. Lets get real here, people are on death row who need their cases to be heard. All this is about is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and some nostalgia for a baseball that probably never existed.

[Wilfrid1]

Your main point is surely right, but certainly quite a number of athletes have died from causes related to using steroids or other performance-enhancing drugs. In the good old days, the Tour de France was full of speedfreaks dropping dead in the mountain stages. More seriously, I acknowledge the concern that young and aspiring athletes might be encouraged to risk their health by this example.

[Rose]

Your main point is surely right, but certainly quite a number of athletes have died from causes related to using steroids or other performance-enhancing drugs

If they died it was sad but it was by their own hand. If people wish to die by their own hand, I'm all for their freedom to do so. If players do not adhere to the terms of their contract that is between them and their employer. Let the teams fire their butts but that is a civil matter and nothing else. Show me where the manager holds down a player and injects him with steroids and then I'll give a damn.

[mongo_jones]

Your main point is surely right, but certainly quite a number of athletes have died from causes related to using steroids or other performance-enhancing drugs

If they died it was sad but it was by their own hand. If people wish to die by their own hand, I'm all for their freedom to do so. If players do not adhere to the terms of their contract that is between them and their employer. Let the teams fire their butts but that is a civil matter and nothing else. Show me where the manager holds down a player and injects him with steroids and then I'll give a damn.

did you nae watch rocky iv? poor dolph lundgren never recovered from that forced doping. led to all those "universal soldier" movies.