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Juni gets a website.   From the Times article:     Opens Monday in the Hotel Chandler in midtown.

20+40+15=60.   Oh dear. Or rather, "huh"?

Why not stop over-ordering?   And three starters at Juni would be more expensive than The Elm unless you ordered the three most expensive small plates at The Elm.

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agree with adrian & ab, and adrian's not even mentioning the fat duck.

The Times didn't grant him the prominence that y'all do. They did give it to Hergatt, whether he deserves it or not.

 

It's not my function here to defend what they think is important. That is about the last thing you would find me doing. Anyone who's read my posts over the years would know that what I think is important, and what they think is important, are seldom aligned.

 

But once you recognize the lack of importance they attached to it (easily ascertained by searching their website), understanding why Wells skipped Luksus is not difficult at all.

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I don't think the Times attaches much importance to some hotel chef of with a cuisine "geographical assertion". I know Mouthfuls does.

 

If you think that a restaurant opened by a guy at the top of three of the world's most important restaurants is the type of restaurant that the Times traditionally skips, I really don't know what to say.

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I don't think the Times attaches much importance to some hotel chef of with a cuisine "geographical assertion". I know Mouthfuls does.

This is not open to rational dispute. Look at how much coverage they gave Hergatt. Over and over again. Now look at how little they gave Burns. After you've researched that, we can continue the conversation.

 

Not that I'm trying to put the burden on you, but clearly you don't believe me, so you need to check it for yourself, to see that it's true.

 

Remember, it's not about whether they liked him (clearly they did not), but whether they found him newsworthy (clearly they did).

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Adrian, you should also check Hergatt's history outside New York and the coverage of SHO and Juni elsewhere.

 

He's not a Mouthfuls creation. I mean, if we had been screaming for a Times review of Tides or Redhead you'd have a point.

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Wilfird - you know I think Juni should be reviewed, but I don't think Hergatt's gold plated resume as a hotel chef in Australia and Miami is part of the case.

 

oakapple - if the Times had ignored the pastry chef from the Best Restaurant in the World opening in NYC that would have been an error pushing in the opposite direction, but since we believe in Reality Based Discussions around here, there are two mentions of Burns w/r/t Torst and then a pre-opening entry by FloFab on Luksus and then a big piece, post opening mind you, on New Nordic cooking where a talk with Burns is the focal point of a New Nordic fun quest where they discuss his resume. So maybe he should have hired a bigger PR company for the full Shaun Hergatt looming photographic FloFab spread, but it's not like he was ignored.

 

So when you've got 4 NYT mentions, and you were near the top of the Old Best Restaurant in the World, and then you were the pastry chef of the Best Restaurant in the World, and then you were head of research at the most important restaurant group around, and then you're on a TV show (Mind of a Chef), and then you open up a tasting menu restaurant with the world's most famous brewer that gets a Michelin star, maybe you're not quite as mandatory a review as a big deal hotel chef from Miami who got a couple Michelin stars and a couple terrible NYT reviews and a message board following, but I don't think we're in different classes here. It's all starting to sound a little out of touch in these parts.

 

ETA: I would also recommend google searches of the two names - perhaps with the word "chef" - and see what sources pop up for each.

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I count six currently Michelin starred restaurants that I believe have never had a Times review of any kind: Andanada, Caviar Russe, Danny Brown, Juni, Luksus, and ZZ’s Clam Bar. (There are a number of others that have been only reviewed in "Hungry City"; I haven't counted them offhand.)

 

Juni is unique, because it's the only one whose chef formerly had two Michelin stars. Traditionally, that would make it a mandatory review, whether the critic likes it or not. There was nothing mandatory about Luksus when it came along. It is the perfect example of a restaurant the critic historically would skip, if after one or two visits he felt he had nothing good to say.

Sorry, I can't disagree with this more. The line between a Luksus and a Lincoln is vanishingly small. Luksus was opened by the guy who ran the pastry kitchen at the top restaurant in the world and ran Momofuku labs (which isn't like Albert Adria coming over but, again, it's not that far off). As big a deal as Per Se's CDC opening an Italian join in Lincoln center? Maybe not? But, abstracting from NYC provincialism, it seems pretty mandatory.

 

ETA: Juni, meanwhile, seems to fall in line more with the anonymous, if delicious, 2 stars that proliferate cities world wide. When was the last time you read a review of Relais Louis XV? Not that it shouldn't be a "mandatory" review, but it's more difficult to make the argument that it's an "important" restaurant.

 

ETA 2: Of course, I haven't been to Juni, and maybe it's like a really culinary important place that's pushing or playing with a lot of boundaries. That's not the impression I get either from the media, where it's invisible (for good reason or not), or from the posts here. But, of course, if you've got 2 Michelin stars, you should be a mandatory review. Though there is precedent for this - Chris Lee's Gilt sat unreviewed for its entire run.

 

Wait a minute. I'm confused. Now it sounds like you're saying all the stuff you disagreed with when I said it a couple of days ago.

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Wait a minute. I'm confused. Now it sounds like you're saying all the stuff you disagreed with when I said it a couple of days ago.

 

 

It's a relative point v. Luksus, not an absolute one. I think there are "unimportant" or low-profile fine dining restaurants. Anonymous hotel rooms, certain places that appeal to a niche audience. Certainly hotel-type restaurants are less sexy than other kinds of places, but I don't see that making fine dining a niche genre.

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The trouble is, Adrian, you are allowing Burns's ability to confuse the matter. Ability never had anything to do with it. Otherwise, why did Richard get all that press for an execrable restaurant in the Palace?

 

Because Michel RIchard had a reputation as being Washington DC's best chef. Presumably he once ran good restaurants.

 

I don't know where your idea that Burns was off the NYT or media radar comes from. There are three pre-opening mentions in the Times, one specifically about Luksus, and then a large article that he is the centerpiece of in February. That's not bad for your first year on your own. There's also stuff like this that Hergatt could never do.

 

But it's not an argument about Hergatt. He should be reviewed. It's just saying that Burns' bio was well known in the food community and the interested broader community (sure more than Hergatt), his restaurant was well publicized even in the Times, and that, given that, the miss was inexplicable and no worse than the Hergatt miss.

 

I could concoct a story about how Wells doesn't realize that small tasting menu rooms in gentrifying neighbourhoods are the New Fine Dining and he doesn't appreciate the genre, hence his low ranking of Blanca, the Luksus miss, the Take Root miss, and late cycle reviews of a number of those places. But I don't buy that story.

 

It's like Orik said - probably more noise than signal.

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