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Chevalier at The Baccarat


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Along with the "bonsoirs" and the copy in Conde Nast, it's a signal that they aren't aiming at a food crowd. In fact, they're doing things that actively repel the food crowd (broadly, not oakfrid) and trying to attract a crowd that is food indifferent.

 

I think it is a myth that the crowd you're referring to doesn't know the difference between good and bad.

 

Actually, there is considerable evidence that the opposite is true: the Jim Leff generation, who have grown up thinking that the merely decent is truly great. The flipside of being offended by "bonsoir" is going into flights of rapture just because the food is served in a converted haberdashery.

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I saw that the Baccarat's bar is opening tonight. No date yet for the main restaurant, Chevalier. This is the place Charles Masson will be running, with Shea Gallante in the kitchen. Modern take on

I recall the good old days when I went to a restaurant for the food. Now I have all these other things to worry about to determine if I had a good time.

I've been to that downstairs bar twice, and both times got a seat with no trouble at all.   I went upstairs only once. The bar was such a madhouse that a guy in a suit wouldn't even let me in the do

Maybe in six months time Gallante will be gone and it will be just another hotel dining room. A minority here seems to want that to happen, which is what I find odd.

I think mongo_jones is the only one who would be happy to see him fail.

 

Many more think he is likely to, and wishes the management had taken different choices to make that outcome less probable.

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It would be interesting to come up with a list of proposals from this thread:

 

1. Have an independent cocktail list priced competitively with peers in the neighborhood.

 

2. Have staff consistently greet people in English.

 

3. Make a decision about the price of the tasting menu and publish it online.

 

Any other changes, apart from "don't exist"?

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I feel like The Modern, especially the Bar, does pull an Eater-y crowd, though perhaps the more young professional [there was a word...'yuppie'?] rather than hipster end of the population.

The Modern is really two, almost totally different, restaurants. Frank Bruni reviewed the Bar Room separately, and gave it a higher rating than the dining room, on that premise.

 

Chevalier does have a bar, but it is much smaller, and if you order there, you're going to get the dining room menu. The Modern has its own Bar Room menu, in a completely different style than the Dining Room. It naturally attracts its own kind of crowd.

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So the question is why are they bothering with cuisine that's better than it needs to be?

Why would we assume that because the restaurant is not built for "modern foodies," they don't give a damn whether the food is any good?

 

Sometimes, people do quality work because they actually believe in what they are doing.

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That was in response to Adrian's contention that 'they're doing things that actively repel the food crowd (broadly, not oakfrid) and trying to attract a crowd that is food indifferent'.

 

Personally I suspect plenty of older, stuffier bourgeois diners appreciate good food.

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That was in response to Adrian's contention that 'they're doing things that actively repel the food crowd (broadly, not oakfrid) and trying to attract a crowd that is food indifferent'.

 

Personally I suspect plenty of older, stuffier bourgeois diners appreciate good food.

Thanks....now I see it. I resplied separately to Adrian, whose post was very Chowhoundish, and not in a good way. I agree with your suspicion. In fact, I'd promote it from suspicion to fact.

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That was in response to Adrian's contention that 'they're doing things that actively repel the food crowd (broadly, not oakfrid) and trying to attract a crowd that is food indifferent'.

 

Personally I suspect plenty of older, stuffier bourgeois diners appreciate good food.

Thanks....now I see it. I resplied separately to Adrian, whose post was very Chowhoundish, and not in a good way. I agree with your suspicion. In fact, I'd promote it from suspicion to fact.
I'm not talking Jim left here. I'm talking about the various reactions around here from sneak, neocon, taion, ab, sneaks friends, etc. I read the press and descriptions and think "this is not for me" in a way i don't with other places (ie. Grace in Chicago, the new kreuthers place, other high end openings). The insistence that people's reaction to the face this place is showing to the world is some elaborate fantasy used to justify a pre-existing bias when we can easily point to the fact that people who hold these opinions don't have that bias is failing to grapple with the issue.

 

Eta: I've done more fff dining this past week than most here will do this year. I don't think chowhounding is the issue here.

 

Eta 2: in not just making an age point here. They're going to be turning off large parts of the "old" food too. And they shouldn't!

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I'm not talking Jim Leff here. I'm talking about the various reactions around here from sneak, neocon, taion, ab, sneaks friends, etc. I read the press and descriptions and think "this is not for me" in a way i don't with other places (ie. Grace in Chicago, the new kreuthers place, other high end openings).

 

I don't take issue with your "This isn't for me" reaction. Your preferences are your own, and that's fine.

 

What I take issue with, is the presumption that since the restaurant isn't built for you (or people like you), it must be built for people who are indifferent to food. This is a very Chowhoundish idea. I seriously doubt that before the Chowhound era, anyone would've suggested that such restaurants were categorically and intentionally designed to favor diners who cannot tell good food from bad.

 

The pursuit of deliciousness (with all other amenities ignored)—surely a legitimate aim—became (for some people) the belief that if you offer the amenities, the whole experience (including the food) becomes actively worse. Some of those who don't actually subscribe fully to this, lapse into it at times, as you just did.

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Maybe in six months time Gallante will be gone and it will be just another hotel dining room. A minority here seems to want that to happen, which is what I find odd.

 

I think mongo_jones is the only one who would be happy to see him fail.

 

 

 

what now? i don't even live in new york.

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Maybe in six months time Gallante will be gone and it will be just another hotel dining room. A minority here seems to want that to happen, which is what I find odd.

 

I think mongo_jones is the only one who would be happy to see him fail.

 

what now? i don't even live in new york.

 

I believe you said that you want this type of restaurant experience to decay and perish; and the faster that happens, the better. If that's not rooting for the guy to fail, I don't know what is.

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I think it would be revealing if Adrian could articulate what he perceives as the likely difference between Chevalier and Kreuther, the latter from a chef who has run two upscale restaurants, the first in a posh hotel, complete with staff ranked by suits and ties, chariots de fromage, and not for stereotypical foodie crowds either.

 

Mind you, I don't see why it's contrasted with Jean Georges.

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